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Comment author: Arielgenesis 24 July 2016 03:50:51PM 0 points [-]

We'd love to know who you are, what you're doing,

I was a high school teacher. Now I'm back to school for Honours and hopefully PhD in science.

what you value Whatever is valuable

how you came to identify as an aspiring rationalist or how you found us My friend who is now a sister under the Fransiscan order of the Roman Catholic Church recommended me Harry Potter and the method of Rationality

Comment author: jkadlubo 23 July 2016 08:26:58AM *  1 point [-]

Room full of first year pedagogy students, lecturer puts a claim "marxism is not the philosophy of Marx." He explains how marxists distorted original Marx' thought and how the original claims are so great and describe the world and how they should be followed.

If I was generous, I would say he wanted the students to argue, he wanted them to think critically and disprove his weak argument, but he had experience with students and those were 18-year-olds, who would always try to shut down my questions for explanations "because we want to have this lecture finished". The way it worked, for next two weeks all girls in my group (exept for one other older student) were avid, bona fide marxists. And likely spread this ideology to their families.

3 is happening in real life.

Comment author: JustinMElms 22 July 2016 11:02:37PM 0 points [-]

I like both Volairina and your takes on the non-rational world. I was having a lot of trouble working something out.

That said, while Voltairina's world is a bit more horrifyingly extreme than yours, it seems to me more probably that cause and effect simply did not exist. I can envision a structure of elementary physics that simply change--functionally randomly--far more easily than that causality does exist, but operates in the inverse. I have more trouble envisioning the elementary physics that bring that into existence without a observational intellect directly upsetting motivated plans.

All that is to say, might not your case be the more extreme one?

In response to comment by dxu on The Moral Void
Comment author: TheAncientGeek 22 July 2016 03:05:57PM *  -1 points [-]

You seem to have conceded that you can get shoulds out of descriptions. The trick seems to be that if there is something you want to achieve, there are things you should and should not do to achieve it.

If the purpose of morality is, for instance, to achieve cooperative outcomes, and avoid conflict over resources, then there are things people should and shouldn't do to support that. Although something like game theory , rather than physics, would supply the details


In response to My Strange Beliefs
Comment author: Emma_MK 22 July 2016 02:25:03PM 0 points [-]

When I write a blog post proselytizing transhumanism, it looks like this, this, or this.

The first two links are broken.

Comment author: pepe_prime 22 July 2016 11:26:53AM 0 points [-]

If your resume lists sufficient credentials (high SAT scores or gpa, attending or graduated from a good college, or previous tutoring experience) it's easy to get a job at a tutoring agency. They take a 50-70% cut of earnings, leaving you with $11-35/hr. There are many such agencies both for in-office and in-home, mostly 1-on-1. Agencies exist that focus on test-prep (preparing for the SAT, mostly), that focus on supplementing an existing class, or both. If you don't have the credentials, it's still worth a shot to apply.

Alternatively, you can advertise on WyzAnt, University Tutor, Craigslist, or put up fliers in the library and high school student centers. I never had the courage to put up fliers but I saw many, and the more experienced tutors I knew did this.

In response to comment by dxu on The Moral Void
Comment author: ChristianKl 22 July 2016 09:35:52AM 1 point [-]

People spoke of apples before they knew anything about atoms. Someone did discover at sometime that the entities that we call apples are made out of atoms.

If I would have a teleporter and exchange the atoms one-by-one with other atoms it would also stay the same apple. Especially when it comes to bridges I think there are actual bridges that had nearly total atom exchange but as still considered to be the same bridge.

Comment author: Become_Stronger 22 July 2016 03:25:53AM 0 points [-]


  • Gather useful information and insights from experts in countries foreign to you, the farther away the better. (Use the internet, jet travel, etc for this.)
  • Read this information into the chronophone.
  • This should produce insights from experts Archimedes would have had comparatively much more trouble contacting, because you have better tools available to you for the execution of the same cognitive strategy.
In response to comment by dxu on The Moral Void
Comment author: entirelyuseless 22 July 2016 03:06:37AM 0 points [-]

"Apple" is not used to refer to a "large collection of atoms" etc. You believe that apples are large collections of atoms; but that is not the meaning of the word. So you are making one of the same mistakes here that you made in the zombie argument.

Comment author: thrawnca 22 July 2016 03:06:16AM 0 points [-]

It appears the key issue in creating conflict is that the two groups must not be permitted to get to know each other and become friendly

Because then, of course, they might start attributing each other's negative actions to environmental factors, instead of assuming them to be based on inherent evil.

Comment author: thrawnca 22 July 2016 02:57:21AM *  0 points [-]

If those are the unfortunate downsides of policies that are worthwhile overall, then I don't think that qualifies for 'supervillain' status.

I mean, if you're postulating the existence of God, then that also brings up the possibility of an afterlife, etc, so there could well be a bigger picture and higher stakes than threescore years and ten. Sometimes it's rational to say, That is a tragedy, but this course of action is still for the best.

If anything, this provides a possible answer to the atheist's question, "Why would God allow suffering?"

Comment author: waveman 22 July 2016 02:43:31AM 0 points [-]

But you talk about some of your ideas like it's obvious and accepted by anyone who isn't an idiot.

In the prolog to the QM sequence he does actually repeatedly say <this all is my opinion and others have different opinions and I'll talk about that later>

Comment author: dxu 21 July 2016 04:28:23PM *  0 points [-]

This is an equivocation. "Apple" is a term we use to refer to a large collection of atoms arranged in a particular manner. The same goes for the word "bridge" that you mentioned in your other comment. The fact that we can talk about such collections of atoms and refer to them using shorthands ("apple", "bridge", etc.) does not change the fact that they are still made of atoms, and hence subject to the laws of physics. This fact has precisely no bearing on the issue of whether it is possible to deduce morality from physics.

EDIT: Speaking of whether it's possible to deduce morality from physics, I actually already linked to (what in my mind is) a fairly compelling argument that it's not, but I note that you've (unsurprisingly) neglected to address that argument entirely.

Comment author: The_Jaded_One 21 July 2016 02:04:00PM 0 points [-]

famous PUA to boycott Mad Max: Fury Road because it's feminist propaganda.

I've seen PUA stuff and I've seen the movie. Whilst it's true that the protagonists are mostly female and the bad guy is male, I wouldn't say it's pushing a feminist message. I don't think that the film vilifies men as a whole. I'm much more annoyed about ghostbusters actually.

Comment author: Riothamus 21 July 2016 01:10:02PM 0 points [-]

That doesn't mean that inherently impossible to transmit knowledge via writting but it's hard.

Agreed. The more I consider the problem, the higher my confidence that investing enough energy in the process is a bad investment for them.

Another romantic solution waiting for the appropriate problem. I should look into detaching from the idea.

In response to comment by dxu on The Moral Void
Comment author: entirelyuseless 21 July 2016 11:38:20AM *  -2 points [-]

No, because the axioms of physics do not contain the word "bridge."

(Also, note that TheAncientGeek deliberately included the word "should" in his bridge statement, so you just effectively contradicted yourself by saying that a statement involving "should" can be deduced from physics.)

In response to comment by dxu on The Moral Void
Comment author: entirelyuseless 21 July 2016 11:36:47AM *  0 points [-]

It is not irrelevant. Physics does not contain axioms that have the word "apple" in them, and so you cannot logically go from the axioms of physics to "apples tend to fall if you drop them." That does not prevent you from making a reasonable argument that if the axioms of physics are true, then apples will fall, and it does not prevent you from arguing for morality.

Comment author: ChristianKl 21 July 2016 08:50:37AM 0 points [-]

The examples you give are strategies employed by organizations trying to deny all knowledge outside of the initiated.

I think most of the organsiation I'm talking about don't have a binary intiate/non-initiate criteria whereby the initiated get access to all knowledge. As people learn more they get access to more knowledge. Most scientologists haven't heard of Xenu. At least that was the case 10 years ago.

If the knowledge is being transmitted outside of the workshops, how do we persuade the suppliants to self-initiate?

LW-Dojo are a way for knowledge to be transmitted outside of workshops. I also think that alumni are generally encouraged to explain knowledge to other people. Peer-to-peer instruction has natural filter that reduce completely passive consumption.

That doesn't mean that inherently impossible to transmit knowledge via writting but it's hard.

Comment author: Riothamus 20 July 2016 10:04:47PM 0 points [-]

I should amend my assumption to uncontrolled transmission is inevitable. The strategy so far has been to use the workshops, and otherwise decline to distribute the knowledge.

The historical example should be considered in light of what the goals are. The examples you give are strategies employed by organizations trying to deny all knowledge outside of the initiated. Enforcing secrecy and spreading bad information are viable for that goal. CFAR is not trying to deny the knowledge, only to maximize its fidelity. What is the strategy they can use to maximize fidelity in cases where they did not choose to transmit it (like this one)?

Suppose we model everyone who practices state-of-the-art rationality as an initiate, and everyone who wants to read about CFAR's teachings as a suppliant. If the knowledge is being transmitted outside of the workshops, how do we persuade the suppliants to self-initiate? Imposing some sort of barrier, so that it requires effort to access the knowledge - I suggest by dividing the knowledge up, thus modelling the mysteries. We would want the divided content to be such that people who won't practice it disengage rather than consume it all passively.

If CFAR were to provide the content, even in this format, I expect the incentive of people to produce posts like the above would be reduced, likewise for the incentive of people to read such collections.

In retrospect, I should have made it explicit I was assuming everyone involved was a (potential) insider at the beginning.

Comment author: ChristianKl 20 July 2016 08:34:26PM 0 points [-]

You refered to historical techniques that are used. Generally historical groups actually have defenses against lay people accessing knowledge even if those lay people think they are experts and should be able to access the knowledge.

Whether it's sworn secrecy, hiding knowledge in plain sight or simple lies to mislead uninitiated readers, there's a huge toolbox.

I assume transmission is inevitable; given that, segregating the information into lower-error chunks seems like a viable strategy.

Presumably CFAR thinks that their workshop is a low error chunk of consuming their material.

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