PhilGoetz comments on Thoughts on the Singularity Institute (SI) - badger.com on lesswrong.com

256 Post author: HoldenKarnofsky 11 May 2012 04:31AM

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Comment author: PhilGoetz 15 May 2012 12:23:41AM *  12 points [-]

I'm very impressed by Holden's thoroughness and thoughtfulness. What I'd like to know is why his post is Eliezer-endorsed and has 191 up-votes, while my many posts over the years hammering on Objection 1, and my comments raising Objection 2, have never gotten the green button, been frequently down-voted, and never been responded to by SIAI. Do you have to be outside the community to be taken seriously by it?

Comment author: metaphysicist 15 May 2012 12:35:46AM 19 points [-]

Not to be cynical, PhilGoetz, but isn't Holden an important player in the rational-charity movement? Wouldn't the ultimate costs of ignoring Holden be prohibitive?

Comment author: PhilGoetz 16 May 2012 02:25:05AM 4 points [-]

That could explain the green dot. I don't know which explanation is more depressing.

Comment author: Rain 15 May 2012 12:46:40AM 3 points [-]

You are absolutely correct. And, that's not the reason I find it engaging or informative.

Comment author: Rain 15 May 2012 12:42:08AM *  16 points [-]

I thought most of the stuff in Holden's post had been public knowledge for years, even to the point of being included in previous FAQs produced by SI. The main difference is that the presentation and solidity of it in this article are remarkable - interconnecting so many different threads which, when placed as individual sentences or paragraphs, might hang alone, but when woven together with the proper knots form a powerful net.

Comment author: Nick_Beckstead 15 May 2012 02:23:47AM 12 points [-]

I would be interested to see if you could link to posts where you made versions of these objections.

Comment author: PhilGoetz 18 May 2012 12:48:49AM 9 points [-]
Comment author: John_Maxwell_IV 15 May 2012 12:41:12AM *  7 points [-]

Assuming what you say is true, it looks to me as though SI is paying the cost of ignoring its critics for so many years...

Comment author: ghf 15 May 2012 01:36:05AM 6 points [-]

I think some of it comes down to the range of arguments offered. For example, posted alone, I would not have found Objection 2 particularly compelling, but I was impressed by many other points and in particular the discussion of organizational capacity. I'm sure there are others for whom those evaluations were completely reversed. Nonetheless, we all voted it up. Many of us who did so likely agree with one another less than we do with SIAI, but that has only showed up here and there on this thread.

Critically, it was all presented, not in the context of an inside argument, but in the context of "is SI an effective organization in terms of its stated goals." The question posed to each of us was: do you believe in SI's mission and, if so, do you think that donating to SI is an effective way to achieve that goal? It is a wonderful instantiation of the standard test of belief, "how much are you willing to bet on it?"