Jack comments on Atheism = Untheism + Antitheism - Less Wrong

86 Post author: Eliezer_Yudkowsky 01 July 2009 02:19AM

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Comment author: Jack 02 July 2009 12:16:31AM 6 points [-]

Two points.

First, I've also heard antitheism defined as the position that religious belief is harmful (think Hitchens book). So that one could without logical contradiction be an antitheist and a theist.

Second, my understanding of the current experimental data is that humans have hardwired religious tendencies that would make an Untheistic society very unlikely to appear. Obviously it works for a thought experiment but but saying "Babies are natural atheists/untheists" is problematic because while that might be true strictly speaking babies are likely natural animists and possibly immortalists.

Comment author: ragnarok 24 July 2012 10:48:34AM -1 points [-]

Jack, there's a difference between knowledge and belief which your post doesn't address. I've sometimes seen it argued that antitheism is a faith in the same way as theism is, but where there is evidence we do not speak of belief. I don't think you can be an antitheist and a theist without contradiction because antitheism doesn't contradict the knowable.

Comment author: ciphergoth 03 July 2009 07:37:46AM 23 points [-]

humans have hardwired religious tendencies

Remember, religion is adapted to the wiring, not the other way around. As I've said elsewhere, it's not a God-shaped hole, it's a hole-shaped God.

Do you live in the USA? Few people from Sweden conclude that religion is an unshakeably deep part of the human psyche.

Comment author: Jack 03 July 2009 10:22:17PM 2 points [-]

I didn't say it was unshakable. Just innate. I'm not convinced religion didn't spring from the wiring... where else could it spring from? The only option is the external world and I think we agree there is nothing there to generate religion.

Sweden, as I understand it, is a civilized land with a scientific mindset. The fact that they've overcome a bias says nothing about the existence of that bias.

Comment author: Eliezer_Yudkowsky 02 July 2009 05:13:15AM 18 points [-]

hardwired religious tendencies

Hardwired anthropomorphic tendencies. Hunter-gatherer superstitions don't much resemble what we think of as religions. The gods are often stupid.