thomblake comments on Atheism = Untheism + Antitheism - Less Wrong
You are viewing a comment permalink. View the original post to see all comments and the full post content.
You are viewing a comment permalink. View the original post to see all comments and the full post content.
Comments (179)
I think that this is a very important question to ask, and to really seek answers on, if this discussion is to advance any. Obviously, there are believers of all stripes who are in some sense getting a reward for their beliefs, be it socially rewarding for the culture or subculture they are in, psychologically rewarding by allowing them to be more hopeful about the future, etc. Saying their metaphysical beliefs are unlikely doesn't get at the heart of what their belief is based on, in my opinion. As has been pointed out, they don't have a robust logical structure to their beliefs to start with. So, what's "missing" from the rationalist worldview in the eyes of a believer in the supernatural is not necessarily the gods, fairies, etc., as much as the sense of safety, community, what have you, that their particular faith grants them. So, in addition to EY's equation, I'd like to suggest that atheism != anti-community or anti-loyalty or anti-love, though in the current political structures and fights we're having in the US, it almost definitely does equal anti-religion (see the teaching evolution in schools and the gay marriage debates). Untheism, by disregarding the supernatural, can still claim a lot from the territory that supernaturalists refer to as "spiritual".
It should be noted that not all "untheists" disregard the supernatural. Many buddhists are atheistic but accept the supernatural, for instance. And I'm sure there are atheists out there who believe in various flavors of magic or the paranormal.
Point taken, Thom. In my eyes, those positions (atheist magicians or supernaturally minded Buddhists) are still seeking the same things as a single-deity theist, such as, a sense of control of their destiny or the possibility of being reunited with lost loved one. In saying "we can speak about those things you want when you look for God (or magic, or the paranormal)", I believe rationalists open up a better avenue of dialog than by saying "you aren't talking about anything important". This might help people to improve their lives not by looking into the arcana of the faith they were raised in, but the possibilities held in the world around them.