billswift comments on Our society lacks good self-preservation mechanisms - Less Wrong

12 [deleted] 12 July 2009 09:26AM

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Comment author: billswift 13 July 2009 07:25:35AM 0 points [-]

Libertarianism is the best available self-preservation mechanism. It is the social and memetic equivalent of genetic behavioral dispersion; that members of many species behave slightly differently which reduces the likelihood of a large percentage falling to the same cause.

Comment author: [deleted] 13 July 2009 07:31:30AM 4 points [-]

Of the eighteen existential risks Bostrom listed, that would help against maybe three. If you disagree, tell me how that would help with any of them other than resource depletion and evolution.

Comment author: jimrandomh 13 July 2009 05:42:03PM -2 points [-]

I would have a much easier time taking libertarianism seriously if its advocates weren't all in obvious affective death spirals. Libertarianism does not handle tragedy of the commons scenarios well at all, and that's exactly what most existential risks are.

Comment author: JGWeissman 13 July 2009 07:20:33PM 6 points [-]

Not all libertarians are in an affectative death spiral, obvious or otherwise. It's true that many are, but I, for example, recognize tragedy of the commons scenarios and accept that some regulation can be useful to mitigate these problems. I believe there are some specific legitimate purposes of government, such as outlawing aggression, internalizing costs, and coordination (e.g., everyone drives on the right side of road, it would have worked for everyone to drive on the left, but as a society we had to pick one and go with it). Further, I think that every law should be validated to be achieving such an objective with minimal intervention.

I understand how you can form this view, seeing all the pro-business conservatives seizing on libertarian rhetoric to oppose regulation, but then neglecting the responsibility part when they want subsidies, or all the people who correctly notice that most laws are counterproductive and then incorrectly conclude that all laws are counterproductive. But when you claim that all advocates of libertarianism are like that, you are attacking a strawman.

Comment author: Psychohistorian 14 July 2009 01:51:26AM 3 points [-]

"Libertarian" doesn't carve out a very precise cluster in people-space any more. Pretty much anyone who's reflexively wary of government intervention in the private market can call herself a libertarian. Some libertarians will support meaningful government intervention in tragedy of commons type problems; some may even go so far as to support some level of government assisted/coerced redistribution of wealth. You can argue 'till you're blue in the face that that's not a "real" libertarian, but usage defines meaning, and I think enough such people self-identify that way that the word has become fairly imprecise.

Comment author: knb 14 July 2009 10:29:09PM *  3 points [-]

I would have a much easier time taking libertarianism seriously if its advocates weren't all in obvious affective death spirals.

This kind of absurdly absolutist statement achieves nothing but display personal animus toward an ideology. It is true that many libertarians are in death spirals, but I know of no political group that does not have large numbers of supporters in Affective Death Spirals. In case you were unaware, this is a universal tendency for idea-based groups.

And politics is the mind-killer, no matter your politics.

I agree with this, though:

Libertarianism does not handle tragedy of the commons scenarios well at all, and that's exactly what most existential risks are.

Comment author: eirenicon 13 July 2009 04:21:56PM 1 point [-]

But is Libertarianism the best available species-preservation mechanism against existential risks like asteroid impact, nuclear holocaust or cosmic locusts?