sanity comments on Absolute denial for atheists - Less Wrong

39 Post author: taw 16 July 2009 03:41PM

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Comment author: sanity 17 July 2009 02:21:58AM 8 points [-]

Why should we care about "success" if the price of "success" is being a greedy, self-interested asshole?

Why should we assume that financial success requires being a greedy, self-interested asshole?

You know, maybe some of us care about deep insights and meaningful, genuine relationships, which we value for their own sake.

Maybe some of us can do these things while still figuring out how to make ourselves sufficiently valuable to society to exchange those skills for significant wealth?

Maybe we don't want to spend our days plotting how to grind the other guy's face into the dust.

Maybe economic wealth isn't a zero-sum game?

Maybe we want the other guy to be happy and successful, because life is not a zero-sum game and our happiness does not have to come at the expense of anyone else.

Now I'm repeating myself. Maybe delivering sufficient value to society that society is willing to reward you richly for your contribution doesn't necessarily come at anyone else's expense?

Not "triumph over others in some zero-sum primate pissing contest," win.

You're assuming wealth is a zero-sum game. Most of the time, its not.

Comment author: Z_M_Davis 17 July 2009 04:11:57AM 7 points [-]

Oh, dear, I'm afraid I haven't expressed myself clearly. I agree with you on all of these points! It is honorable to create goods or services that people want and then to make money selling them. Wealth is not a zero-sum game; I totally, totally agree. To clarify my intentions, I was not objecting to the suggestion that nerdy male LessWrongers should make money; I was objecting to the suggestion that they should relinquish their allegedly "weak" personalities to better seek power and status and sex. Sorry this wasn't clearer in my original comment.

Comment author: Cyan 17 July 2009 04:31:40AM *  5 points [-]

I wonder how much of your complaints should really be addressed to Roko (in the parent of Z. M. Davis's comment).

Roko's claims:

  • greed and self-interest are preconditions for the motivation necessary to achieve financial success
  • another useful motivation is the desire for sex with extremely attractive women, which generates a desire for status
  • yet another useful motivation is an animosity towards society based on a desire to be seen as right

Z. M. Davis's claim:

  • the attitude promulgated by Roko requires one to look on life as a zero-sum game

Incidentally, while wealth acquisition is obviously not a zero-sum game, Robin Hanson has argued that status acquisition is in some sense a zero sum game: you can't have high status without there being someone having lower status than you.

ETA: This post was made redundant while I was writing it. Darn it.

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