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lukstafi comments on Pain - Less Wrong
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And then there are masochists. (ETA: according to http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/masochist)
Masochists are defined as people who derive pleasure from pain... is it really pain if it is pleasurable?
Yes, and one need not go as far as fringe sexuality, about which I think most people have no real knowledge, for an example: painfully hot curries. Not everyone likes these, but some do.
Of course, the question is superficially complicated by the fact that the word "pain" is used both in the sense of physical pain, as caused by hot curries, hitting yourself with a hammer, and so on, and a more generalised sense of "any feeling you do not want". When this is noticed, the superficial paradox of pleasurable pain dissolves like the paradox of the tree falling unheard in the forest.
Especially as one can be confused about whether "physical pain" experienced is "good or bad", and feel pleasure / displeasure (depending on cognitive context) from same stimulus (e.g. stretching).
Yes, the standard definition of pain (accoording to a quick google search) is "An unpleasant sensory and emotional experience normally associated with tissue damage or described in terms of such damage." We should really pick a definition before answering the question in the post...
Speaking as a masochist, I do not think a definition of pain which excluded that experienced by masochists for fun would cut nature at the joins.
I am confused whether masochists experience pain as pleasure, or experience pleasure as the result of pain, In the former case certain pain wouldn't be bad for masochists, but not necessarily in the latter.
Certainly at least in my case the second seems much closer to the mark. I don't understand your second sentence.
I meant that saying "and then there are masochists" in response to "what is bad about pain?" implies the existence of masochists proves at least sometimes pain can be non-bad, but if in fact masochists do not enjoy the pain itself, but the pleasure they experience simultaneously while experiencing pain, then their existence is not in fact an argument in favor of pain not being intristically bad.
Interesting idea. Would horror movies and roller coasters be better if you could experience their pleasures without having to experience fear? I think it's very closely analogous.
My intuitive answer is they would