Eliezer_Yudkowsky comments on Unspeakable Morality - Less Wrong

27 Post author: Eliezer_Yudkowsky 04 August 2009 05:57AM

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Comment author: Alicorn 04 August 2009 10:25:04PM 1 point [-]

I have no idea where you got those suggestions. Neither one is accurate about my beliefs: I don't go around using the concept of virtue when I talk about ethics, and I only think bad things can be also unethical when they are the result of deliberate or negligent actions/inactions by a person. I think ethics is about the behavior of persons, not the behavior of lions or the edibility of antelopes.

I get my opinions about who should be a vegetarian by the following logic:

I would not up and kill a cow/chicken/guinea pig/cat/whatever for no reason. It seems to me that it would be wrong to go around killing animals (or, for that matter, smashing vases or setting books on fire or committing any act of destruction) for no reason.

It seems that there are some reasons where it would be quite okay to kill an animal (or smash a vase or set a book on fire). If I were starving (if I needed a shard of ceramic to cut some wrongly convicted-of-witchcraft person free from a stake/if I were otherwise going to freeze to death) then I would kill and eat a cow (smash a vase/set a book on fire).

So somewhere in the space of reason-having, between "no reason" and "otherwise a person will die", there must be a threshold of adequacy sufficient to kill an animal (or do any other destructive thing). For the death-for-food of non-personhood-having animals, I draw that line at the excellent quality of life of whoever might eat them. I can have an excellent quality of life and eat only occasional fish. My friend who gets sick when she doesn't eat enough meat can't. So she needn't be a vegetarian, but I should.

Comment author: Eliezer_Yudkowsky 04 August 2009 11:48:24PM 0 points [-]

I only think bad things can be also unethical when they are the result of deliberate or negligent actions/inactions by a person.

I think that's what I meant by:

Or do you mean that the event is bad and to be prevented, but cannot be termed "unethical"?

Comment author: Alicorn 04 August 2009 11:59:19PM 0 points [-]

They don't mean the same thing. It is not the case that all bad things must be "to be prevented".

Comment author: Eliezer_Yudkowsky 05 August 2009 12:05:58AM 0 points [-]

What sort of event is bad, but not to be prevented?

Comment author: Alicorn 05 August 2009 12:06:43AM 1 point [-]

An event with no superior alternative that can be ethically brought about.

Comment author: Eliezer_Yudkowsky 05 August 2009 12:08:25AM 0 points [-]

Hm. Okay, so it's an event that locally has negative utility relative to our set points, but locally maximizes relative to anything we can do about it. Fair enough.