UnholySmoke comments on Would Your Real Preferences Please Stand Up? - Less Wrong

42 Post author: Yvain 08 August 2009 10:57PM

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Comment author: RobinHanson 10 August 2009 03:22:19PM 2 points [-]

The words "conscious" and "unconscious" are widely used; I don't think it helps for you to make up your own definitions. Your evidence about the rationality and morality of your conscious mind come many from your personal conscious beliefs about those features within yourself; these could easily be biased and self-serving. I'm still not entirely clear on what qualia mean, but from what I do understand about them I don't see why the parts of your mind other than the part I'm talking to couldn't have them.

Comment author: UnholySmoke 10 August 2009 06:40:24PM 0 points [-]

I know that feeling is caused by miswired circuits in the basal ganglia. Why should I give miswired circuits in the basal ganglia the same respect as I give myself, a full intelligent human being?

But your rational/conscious/whatever mind is also made of neurons, and yet that makes mistakes, confuses morality etc, and does things you know aren't right. Why does that get described as 'a full, intelligent human being' while your unconscious mind is just basal ganglia?

My rationality is what tells me that I should ask that girl out because the worst she could do is say no. My conscious mind accepts that. My unconscious mind continues to use all of its resources to hold me back from asking.

All true enough, but to go on and say that one is 'better' or 'righter' is not as trivial as you seem to assume. If your supergoal is 'get laid' then asking her out is the correct decision. If 'don't look silly' has more utilons in your head, then that's correct. If you want to argue that 1 'conscious' utilon is worth more than 1 'unconscious' utilon, then that's fine, but you'll have to demonstrate how and why.

Yvain, can you re-summarise your argument drawing better boundaries than 'conscious' and 'unconscious', and without things like 'intelligent, rational human being' to describe parts of your head that, to an unbiased observer, look a lot like other parts? If not, perhaps the conscious/unconscious boundary you're trying to draw is a false (though highly intuitive) one.