Eliezer_Yudkowsky comments on Friendlier AI through politics - Less Wrong

1 Post author: Jonathan_Graehl 16 August 2009 09:29PM

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Comment author: PhilGoetz 17 August 2009 04:42:52PM *  2 points [-]

What kind of competitive or political system would make fragmented squabbling AIs safer than an attempt to get the monolithic approach right?

This is a tremendously important question! (David Brin isn't the first person to raise the idea, BTW. I raised it at the first AGI workshop in 2006, and probably before that on OB. I would be surprised if no-one else had also raised it before that.)

Brin's essay doesn't really touch on any of the important problems with doing so, though.

One of the dangers of trying to implement this is our own horrendously inaccurate understanding of how checks-and-balances work in our own system. Brin's essay, and the ideas of just about every American who speaks on this topic, are fundamentally unsound because they start from the presumption that democracy works, for everything, all the time, everywhere. We've made democracy such a concept of reverence that we have never critiqued it. We haven't even collected the data we would need to do so. Even in Iraq, where we urgently need to do so, we still haven't asked the question "Why does democracy not seem to work here? Would something else work better?"

For starters, we can't hope to create an ecology of AIs until we can figure out how to create a government that doesn't immediately decay into a 2-party system. We want more than 2 AIs.

EDIT: Folks, this is a very important point, for your own survival. I strongly encourage you to explain why you down-voted this comment.

Comment author: Eliezer_Yudkowsky 17 August 2009 06:14:02PM 4 points [-]

What kind of competitive or political system would make fragmented squabbling AIs safer than an attempt to get the monolithic approach right?

This is a tremendously important question!

...and the answer is, "None." It's like asking how you should move your legs to walk faster than a jet plane.

Comment author: thomblake 17 August 2009 06:38:20PM 2 points [-]

I think the question we should all be asking is, "Is the plane on a treadmill?"

Comment author: PhilGoetz 17 August 2009 08:09:14PM *  1 point [-]

Downvoted for dismissing a question that is tremendously important to Eliezer's own work without giving any evidence; and for claiming certainty.

It would be reasonable to say that you think it might not be possible. It isn't reasonable to claim to know that it's impossible.

I have just stated that it isn't reasonable to dismiss without argument as impossible what may be our only chance for survival. I therefore find the immediate surge of downvotes surprising, and would appreciate explanations.

Comment author: Alicorn 17 August 2009 06:18:18PM *  1 point [-]

It's like asking how you should move your legs to walk faster than a jet plane.

I can already walk faster than a jet plane. Jet planes do not walk.

Comment author: steven0461 17 August 2009 06:29:25PM 4 points [-]

I can already walk faster than a jet plane. Jet planes do not walk.

How can you walk faster than something that doesn't walk walks?

Comment author: Eliezer_Yudkowsky 17 August 2009 06:30:19PM 3 points [-]

I love this site.

Comment author: thomblake 17 August 2009 06:35:45PM 0 points [-]

If it can't walk at all, I can certainly walk faster than it.

Would you like some more tea?

Comment author: Cyan 17 August 2009 06:29:10PM *  1 point [-]

Principle-of-charity interpretation:

"It's like asking how you should move your legs to travel faster than a jet plane."

Comment author: SilasBarta 17 August 2009 06:44:05PM 0 points [-]

It's like asking how I should move my legs to travel faster than a a jet plane moves its legs? j/k But I took on what was really meant by the question.

Comment author: SilasBarta 17 August 2009 06:33:06PM *  0 points [-]

It's like asking how you should move your legs to walk faster than a jet plane.

Easy. Go to the first-class galley. Drop-kick their ceramic plates and bowls so that they shatter. Then tell the inspectors. They'll ground the plane. I can walk faster than 0 mph, can you?

(ETA: Better suggestions not given for fear of being arrested, but you get the picture.)

You forgot that aircraft structural analysts post here.

Oh, and wrong meta-level! Or something...