ChrisHibbert comments on Timeless Decision Theory and Meta-Circular Decision Theory - Less Wrong

24 Post author: Eliezer_Yudkowsky 20 August 2009 10:07PM

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Comment author: ChrisHibbert 24 August 2009 05:21:14AM 2 points [-]

Eli, you are doing an amazing good job of putting Pearl's calculus into a verbal form, but I can't help feeling that this would be clearer if you had a few graphs. Do you have tools that would let you draw the causal diagrams? Why not use them? Is it that the move from Pearl's causal calculus to TDT is hard to express in the graph notation? I still think, in that case, that the causal surgery part of the argument would be clearer in Pearl's notation.

Comment author: Eliezer_Yudkowsky 24 August 2009 06:13:44AM 2 points [-]

Do you have tools that would let you draw the causal diagrams?

No. Do you have recommendations?

Comment author: anonym 25 August 2009 05:23:10AM *  2 points [-]

I looked through a paper of Pearl's to see what causal diagrams look like, and what I saw seemed like a good match for Graphviz. I noticed that Shalizi used it for many of the diagrams in his thesis too.

Comment author: Daniel_Lewis 25 August 2009 01:55:00PM 0 points [-]

Graphviz is the LaTeX of graph-drawing tools. You'll get professional-looking output immediately, but the customization options aren't as discoverable as they would be in a visual editor.

If you plan on making lots of graphs or want them to look very pretty, I'd recommend it. If you're just looking for a quick way to draw a graph or two explaining TDT vs. CDT it may not be worth the time relative to a generic (vector) drawing program.

(The Python bindings might make things marginally easier if you know Python and don't want to learn more syntax.)

Comment author: anonym 26 August 2009 03:49:40AM 0 points [-]

I'm think you're exaggerating how difficult it is to use graphviz for simple things by comparing it to LaTeX. Consider this diagram in the gallery and look at how trivially simple the source file that generates that image is.

I don't disagree that doing complex things can be difficult, but for graphs that consist of a handful of nodes and edges with assorted labels, and some boxes to group nodes together, it's hard to beat graphviz.

Comment author: Vladimir_Golovin 24 August 2009 07:13:42AM 1 point [-]

If you're under Windows, Microsoft Visio will do just fine. Also, there are tools like Smartdraw and Gliffy, but I don't have any experience with them.

Comment author: ChrisHibbert 24 August 2009 03:47:45PM 0 points [-]

I use OmniGraffle for such things on a Mac. Many people seem happy with the drawing packages in their word processor or presentation program, though. The advantage of an object based editing program is that you can keep arrows connected as you drag things around.

Comment author: gwern 24 August 2009 06:21:42AM *  0 points [-]

As a graphics doofus, I found Inkscape relatively easy to pick up the basics. But honestly, even a MS Paint/GNU Paint diagram would be better than nothing.