MichaelVassar comments on The Sword of Good - Less Wrong

85 Post author: Eliezer_Yudkowsky 03 September 2009 12:53AM

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Comment author: MichaelVassar 05 September 2009 03:55:18AM 14 points [-]

The modified people can be quite a bit smarter than you are too, so long as you can see their minds and modify them. Groves et al managed to mostly control the Manhattan project despite dozens of its scientists being smarter than any of their supervisors and many having communist sympathies. If he actually shared their earlier memories and could look inside their heads... There's a limit to control, you still won't control an adversarial super intelligence this way, but a friendly human who appreciates your need for power over them? I bet they can have a >50 IQ point advantage, maybe even >70. Schoolteachers control children who have 70 IQ points on them with the help of institutions.

Comment author: Douglas_Knight 05 September 2009 06:03:37AM 8 points [-]

Schoolteachers control children who have 70 IQ points on them with the help of institutions.

Is it relevant that IQ is correlated with obedience to authority?

And how dumb do you think schoolteachers are? Bottom of those with BAs. I'd guess 100. And correlated with their pupils.

Comment author: Desrtopa 01 June 2011 06:29:00PM 3 points [-]

Estimations from SAT scores imply that the IQ of teachers and education majors is below average. Conscientious, hardworking students can graduate from most high schools and colleges with good grades, even if they are fairly stupid, as long as they stay away from courses which demand too much of them, and there are services available for those who are neither hardworking nor conscientious.

Education major courses are somewhat notorious for demanding little of students, and it is a stereotypically common choice for students seeking MRS degrees.

I'd like to imagine that the system would at least filter out individuals who are borderline retarded or below, but experience suggests to me that even this is too optimistic.

Comment author: Douglas_Knight 02 June 2011 03:01:53AM 3 points [-]

I don't buy the conversion in the first link, which is also a dead link. That Ed majors have an SAT score of 950 sounds right. That is 37th percentile among "college-bound seniors." If this population, which I assume means people taking the SAT, were representative of the general population, that would be an IQ of 95, but they aren't. I stand by my estimate of 100.

I doubt you have much experience with people with an IQ of 85, let alone the borderline retarded.

Comment author: Desrtopa 02 June 2011 06:42:55AM 3 points [-]

What makes you doubt I have much experience with either? IQ 85 is one standard deviation below average; close to 14 percent of the population has an IQ at least that low. The lower limit of borderline retardation, that is, the least intelligent you can be before you are no longer borderline, is two standard deviations below the mean, meaning that about one person in fifty is lower than that.

As it happens, I've spent a considerable amount of time with special needs students, some of whom suffer from learning disabilities which do not affect their reasoning abilities, but some of whom are significantly below borderline retarded.

At the public high school I attended, more than 95% of the students in my graduating year went on to college. While the most mentally challenged students in the area were not mainstreamed and didn't attend the same school, there was no shortage of <80 IQ students.

An average IQ of 100 for education majors would be within the error bars for the aforementioned projection, but some individuals are going to be considerably lower.

Comment author: Douglas_Knight 02 June 2011 07:27:23AM -2 points [-]

At the public high school I attended, more than 95% of the students in my graduating year went on to college. While the most mentally challenged students in the area were not mainstreamed and didn't attend the same school, there was no shortage of <80 IQ students.

Those two sentences are not very compatible.

Comment author: Desrtopa 02 June 2011 07:41:10AM 2 points [-]

The rates at which students progress to college have a lot more to do with parental expectations, funding, and the school environment than the intelligence of the students in question. My school had very good resources to support students in the admissions process, and students who didn't take it for granted that they were college bound were few and far between.

Comment author: Document 02 December 2010 11:55:54PM 1 point [-]

It seems unrealistic to assume that we'll be able to literally read the intentions of the first upload; I'd think that we'd start out not knowing any more about them than we would about an organic person through external scanning.

Comment author: MichaelVassar 03 December 2010 03:44:49AM 3 points [-]

You won't be able to evaluate their thoughts exactly, but there's a LOT that you should be able to tell about what a person is thinking if you can perfectly record all of their physiological reactions and every pattern of neural activation with perfect resolution, even with today's knowledge. Kock and Crick even found grandmother neurons, more or less.

Comment author: Document 03 December 2010 07:34:55AM 0 points [-]

I'd still expect it to be hard to tell the difference someone between thinking about or wanting to kill someone/take over the world and someone actually intending to. But I can imagine at least being able to reliably detect lies with that kind of information, so I'll defer to your knowledge of the subject.