Eliezer_Yudkowsky comments on Avoiding doomsday: a "proof" of the self-indication assumption - Less Wrong

18 Post author: Stuart_Armstrong 23 September 2009 02:54PM

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Comment author: CronoDAS 23 September 2009 04:56:43PM 3 points [-]

What bugs me about the doomsday argument is this: it's a stopped clock. In other words, it always gives the same answer regardless of who applies it.

Consider a bacterial colony that starts with a single individual, is going to live for N doublings, and then will die out completely. Each generation, applying the doomsday argument, will conclude that it has a better than 50% chance of being the final generation, because, at any given time, slightly more than half of all colony bacteria that have ever existed currently exist. The doomsday argument tells the bacteria absolutely nothing about the value of N.

Comment author: Eliezer_Yudkowsky 23 September 2009 06:19:23PM 7 points [-]

But they'll be well-calibrated in their expectation - most generations will be wrong, but most individuals will be right.

Comment author: cousin_it 24 September 2009 08:15:57AM *  3 points [-]

Woah, Eliezer defends the doomsday argument on frequentist grounds.

Comment author: JamesAndrix 24 September 2009 05:46:03AM 1 point [-]

So we might well be rejecting something based on long-standing experience, but be wrong because most of the tests will happen in the future? Makes me want to take up free energy research.

Comment author: brian_jaress 24 September 2009 07:37:17AM *  -1 points [-]

Only because of the assumption that the colony is wiped out suddenly. If, for example, the decline mirrors the rise, about two-thirds will be wrong.

ETA: I mean that 2/3 will apply the argument and be wrong. The other 1/3 won't apply the argument because they won't have exponential growth. (Of course they might think some other wrong thing.)

Comment author: Stuart_Armstrong 24 September 2009 09:49:23AM 0 points [-]

They'll be wrong about the generation part only. The "exponential growth" is needed to move from "we are in the last 2/3 of humanity" to "we are in the last few generations". Deny exponential growth (and SIA), then the first assumption is still correct, but the second is wrong.

Comment author: brian_jaress 24 September 2009 03:22:53PM 0 points [-]

They'll be wrong about the generation part only.

But that's the important part. It's called the "Doomsday Argument" for a reason: it concludes that doomsday is imminent.

Of course the last 2/3 is still going to be 2/3 of the total. So is the first 2/3.

Imminent doomsday is the only non-trivial conclusion, and it relies on the assumption that exponential growth will continue right up to a doomsday.