pdf23ds comments on Let them eat cake: Interpersonal Problems vs Tasks - Less Wrong

70 Post author: HughRistik 07 October 2009 04:35PM

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Comment author: freyley 07 October 2009 10:03:27PM 1 point [-]

I was just lamenting this morning how my todo list, a set of tasks for the next few days, was depressing me. When I wrote it, it was a great joy to get all these things out of my head, but now that all I had to do was follow them, it felt mechanical and boring. I could rewrite the list and gain some excitement about a few of the tasks that way, but instead I've been trying to figure out the why of this feeling, and your post gets me right back into it.

I think there's an ideal working state -- perhaps the state of Flow is describing it, or perhaps that's simply some peoples' ideal working state, and there's a more general form of it (I'll use flow for this comment). In this ideal working state, we're constantly encountering problems that are within a known scope. So they're problems -- we don't immediately know how to handle them -- but they're scoped problems, so we know how to figure it out. This is fun, because there are problems, but they're solvable problems.

Dating advice you describe as useful does the opposite of flow -- it creates tasks. Tasks, because they don't require the overcoming of scoped problems, are boring. Taskifying things make them routine, easy, and boring. Taskifying itself can be in flow. Re-taskifying recreates the sense of flow and allows a task to fall within that flow.

What I would want isn't taskified advice, it's the experience that would allow dating to feel flowful.

(I've italicised to try to mark flow as a technical term. Please let me know if I should change the format.)

Comment author: pdf23ds 07 October 2009 10:36:37PM 3 points [-]

Hmm. My intuition is that Flow is no more or less than intimate familiarity with a repertoire of tasks/procedures/heuristics used to reliably solve scoped problems. Do you think Flow could be applied to, e.g., piano performance? What about debugging programs? "Flow" as used in wider culture could certainly be applied that way.

The difficulty of communicating/teaching many procedures and heuristics is the problem with trying to taskify dating advice, IMO.

Comment author: PhilGoetz 08 October 2009 03:40:38AM 4 points [-]

I agree - "flow" happens to masters who have taskified the process and practiced it so many times that it becomes procedural rather than declarative knowledge.

Comment author: LauraABJ 09 October 2009 01:32:11AM 1 point [-]

Yes. This can definitely be done with sex/romance, but it seems that many people want everything to work perfectly the first time... Sorry folks.

Comment author: CronoDAS 08 October 2009 07:02:14AM 2 points [-]

Do you think Flow could be applied to, e.g., piano performance?

I've experienced the state called "flow" when playing the piano, so consider this a big. fat, YES.

You are talking about the same thing I'm talking about, right?