DanArmak comments on Information theory and FOOM - Less Wrong

6 Post author: PhilGoetz 14 October 2009 04:52PM

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Comment author: pengvado 15 October 2009 09:52:17AM *  3 points [-]

Predicting the ground state of a protein is NP-hard. But nature can't solve NP-hard problems either, so predicting what actually happens when a protein folds is merely in BQP.

I would expect most proteins found in natural organisms to be in some sense easy instances of the protein folding problem, i.e. that the BQP method finds the ground state. Because the alternative is getting stuck in local minima, which probably means it doesn't fold consistently to the same shape, which is probably an evolutionary disadvantage. But if there are any remaining differences, then for the purpose of protein structure prediction it's actually the local minimum that's the right answer, and the NP problem that doesn't get solved is irrelevant.

And yes there are quantum simulation people hard at work on the problem, so it's not just biologists. But I don't know enough of the details to say whether they've exhausted the conventional toolbox of heavy-duty math yet.

Comment author: DanArmak 15 October 2009 04:08:05PM 0 points [-]

But nature can't solve NP-hard problems in general either, so predicting what actually happens when a protein folds is merely in BQP.

That explains why I've seen descriptions of folding prediction algorithms that run in polynomial time, on the order of n^5 or less with n = number of amino acids in primary chain.

I wanted to add that many proteins found in nature require chaperones to fold correctly. These can be any other molecules - usually proteins, RNA-zymes, or lipids - that influence the folding process to either assist or prevent certain configurations. They can even form temporary covalent bonds with the protein being folded. (Or permanent ones; some working proteins have attached sugars, metals, other proteins, etc.) And the protein making machinery in the ribosomes has a lot of complexity as well - amino acid chains don't just suddenly appear and start folding.

All this makes it much harder to predict the folding and action of a protein in a real cell environment. In vivo experiments can't be replaced by calculations without simulating a big chunk of the whole cell on a molecular level.