timtyler comments on Why the beliefs/values dichotomy? - Less Wrong

20 Post author: Wei_Dai 20 October 2009 04:35PM

You are viewing a comment permalink. View the original post to see all comments and the full post content.

Comments (153)

You are viewing a single comment's thread. Show more comments above.

Comment author: [deleted] 21 October 2009 03:21:41AM 2 points [-]

Since I'm often annoyed when my posts are downvoted without explanation, and I saw that this post was downvoted, I'll try to explain the downvotes.

Updating of values happens all the time; it's called operant conditioning. If my dog barks and immediately is poked with a hot poker, its value of barking is updated. This is a useful adaptation, as being poked with a hot poker decreases fitness. If my dog tries to mate and immediately receives an electric shock, its value of making is decreased. This is a harmful adaptation, as mating is a more fundamental fitness factor than electric shocks.

So, you seem to be explaining an observation that is not observed using a fact that is not true.

Comment author: timtyler 21 October 2009 08:54:23AM *  1 point [-]

Because a comment is down-voted, that doesn't mean it is incorrect.

This particular comment implicitly linked people's values to their reproductive success. People don't like to hear that they are robot vehicles built to propagate their genes. It offends their sense of self-worth. Their mental marketing department spends all day telling everyone what an altruistic and nice person they are - and they repeat it so many times that they come to believe it themselves. That way their message comes across with sincerity. So: the possibility of biology underlying their motives is a truth that they often want to bury - and place as far out of sight as possible.

Comment author: MichaelBishop 24 October 2009 03:41:22PM *  0 points [-]

While we can never escape our biology entirely, I dispute any suggestion that the selfish gene is always the best level of abstraction, or best model, for human behavior. I assume you agree even though that did not come across in this paragraph.

Comment author: timtyler 25 October 2009 04:49:09PM 1 point [-]

Humans behaviour is often illuminated by the concept of memes. Humans are also influenced by the genes of their pathogens (or other manipulators). If you cough or sneeze, that behaviour is probably not occurring since it benefits you.

Similarly with cancer or back pain - not everything is an adaptation.