steven0461 comments on Raising the Sanity Waterline - Less Wrong

112 Post author: Eliezer_Yudkowsky 12 March 2009 04:28AM

You are viewing a comment permalink. View the original post to see all comments and the full post content.

Comments (207)

You are viewing a single comment's thread. Show more comments above.

Comment author: PhilGoetz 12 March 2009 06:06:49AM 5 points [-]

Err... I actually toss around endorsements of "spirituality" in those contexts where doing so seems likely to have positive effects. Naive realism is a supernatural belief system anyway, just a more subtle than average one. I'll invoke Einstein, Hume and Spinoza as precedents if you wish. Who do you think, by the way, is more likely to convince a theist to sign up for cryonics, a person who says "god is a stupid idea, this is the only way to survive death" or a person who says "I believe in god too, but I also believe in taking advantage of the best available medical technologies". I'd accept a double blind study showing that the former worked better, but it's not how I'd bet.
More importantly, I think that the canary function is more valuable than any harm caused by moderate Christianity, especially if combined with a possible vaccine function. Also, Sam Harris DOES talk about spirituality, and Dennett about free will. Finally, for what it's worth, we only have one data point for a scientific civilization rising, and it was in the religious West not the relatively secular China. Weak evidence, but still evidence.

Comment author: Marcello 12 March 2009 07:43:27AM 8 points [-]

Incidentally, I agree that using the term "spirituality" is not necessarily bad. Though, I'm careful to try to use it to refer to the general emotion of awe/wonder/curiosity about the universe. To me the word means something quite opposed to religion. I mean the emotion I felt years ago when I watched Carl Sagan's "Cosmos".... To me religion looks like what happens when spirituality is snuffed out by an answer which isn't as wonderfully strange and satisfyingly true as it could have been.

It's a word with positive connotations, and we might want to steal it. It would certainly help counteract the vulcan stereotype.

Comment author: steven0461 12 March 2009 04:57:04PM *  8 points [-]

I question whether awe and wonder about this giant mostly-unstructured human-hostile death trap we call a universe is an appropriate emotion for a rationalist. Morbid fascination, maybe -- Lovecraft and Teller, not Sagan.

Comment author: Eliezer_Yudkowsky 12 March 2009 06:57:44PM 15 points [-]

The place has potential if it were fixed up a bit. That's what gets me up in the morning.

Comment author: JulianMorrison 12 March 2009 05:10:23PM 3 points [-]

"Wonder" is the emotion that smells a bit off to me. Can you feel that if you are not enamored of mysterious answers?

Comment author: Johnicholas 12 March 2009 07:00:16PM 3 points [-]

Yes. See Sense of Wonder for examples.