Tyrrell_McAllister comments on Less Wrong Q&A with Eliezer Yudkowsky: Ask Your Questions - Less Wrong

16 Post author: MichaelGR 11 November 2009 03:00AM

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Comment author: Tyrrell_McAllister 12 November 2009 03:06:26PM *  0 points [-]

Of course, the mathematician might claim that the "entities" that they're manipulating are more than just the syntax, and are actually much bigger. That is, they might answer "semantically".

Models are semantics. The whole point of models is to give semantic meaning to syntactic strings.

I haven't studied the proof of the Löwenheim–Skolem theorem, but I would be surprised if it were as trivial as the observation that there are only countably many sentences in ZFC. It's not at all clear to me that you can convert the language in which ZFC is expressed into a model for ZFC in a way that would establish the Löwenheim–Skolem theorem.

Comment author: Johnicholas 12 November 2009 03:46:53PM *  3 points [-]

I have studied the proof of the (downward) Lowenheim-Skolem theorem - as an undergraduate, so you should take my conclusions with some salt - but my understanding of the (downward) Lowenheim-Skolem theorem was exactly that the proof builds a model out of the syntax of the first-order theory in question.

I'm not saying that the proof is trivial - what I'm saying is that holding Godel-numberability and the possibility of a strict formalist interpretation of mathematics in your mind provides a helpful intuition for the result.