John_Maxwell_IV comments on Help Roko become a better rationalist! - Less Wrong

-6 [deleted] 02 December 2009 08:23AM

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Comment author: John_Maxwell_IV 02 December 2009 09:47:27AM 0 points [-]

What is the difference between free will and lack of determinism? What's the definition of free will?

Comment author: Jack 02 December 2009 10:55:17AM *  1 point [-]

Well for one thing, there appear to be non-deterministic systems (possibly real ones, definitely conceived ones) that we would never say have free will. If x is a radioactive atom whether or not it decays in the next minute is undetermined. But the atom does not have free will. And actually, it is hard to make sense of what free will would be if it was just a lack of determinism since the extent to which an event is undetermined is also the extent to which it is random. One cannot control something that is random. But free will means having control over our actions. Ergo: if our actions are free they cannot be undetermined.

(And I know the particle decay picture is resolved differently with MW, but we don't have any other non-deterministic systems to talk about.)

Comment deleted 02 December 2009 10:04:50AM [-]
Comment author: timtyler 09 December 2009 05:17:35PM 0 points [-]

Hmm. You can ask the question: "are most leprechauns taller than fairies?" too.

In itself, asking questions doesn't prove very much.

Comment author: Zack_M_Davis 10 December 2009 12:23:43AM 1 point [-]

"are most leprechauns taller than fairies?"

Yes. p=0.95.

Comment deleted 10 December 2009 12:07:31AM [-]
Comment author: timtyler 11 December 2009 07:46:40PM 0 points [-]

The point was that merely asking a question proves very little.

For another example, one can ask whether felines are smarter than cats (on average).

That's a coherent question - and its answer is "no".

Comment author: wedrifid 10 December 2009 03:28:00AM *  0 points [-]

it does seem to show that "fairy" and "leprechaun" are distinct concepts, which is not entirely a contentless statement.

But everyone knows that LEPRecon (Lower Elements Police reconnaissance division) is a job title and leprechauns are, in fact, fairies. This leads me to approximate the question and answer "most leprechauns are above average fairy height". This is to be expected for cops in general, above or below ground.

It seems that even if leprechauns are fairies the concepts are distinct.