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Alicorn comments on Rebasing Ethics - Less Wrong
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Comments (68)
It's only theft not to tip if they actually include the tip in the bill as a "service charge". Otherwise, the tip is technically a gift. Withholding a customary gift might be mean (compare the likely outrage if you don't get your children gifts on their birthdays) but it's not stealing.
What do you mean by "technically"? What authority gets to impose precise definitions? The IRS doesn't consider it a gift.
It's legally a gift in that they can't compel you to tip (unless they call it a service charge and include it in the bill). It's also, legally, income, but so is any gift as long as it's of a size the IRS gets interested in.
My understanding is that the giver of a gift pays taxes to the IRS, but the recipient doesn't (with many qualifiers (at most $10k/year to family?) that I don't recommend we research or discuss, because it's boring and irrelevant).
It may not be legal theft, but it's still moral theft. You sat down and ate with the mutual understanding that you would tip. The only reason the waiter is bringing you food is because of the expectation that you will tip. If you announced your intention not to tip, he would not serve you, he would tell you to fuck off. The tip is a payment for a service, it is not a gift. The fact that the agreement to pay is implicit, the fact that the precise amount of the payment is left partially unspecified are merely technicalities that do not change the basic fact that the tip is a payment, not a gift.
Wacky. The waiter brings food because that's the job description.
And then the manager would fire him or her.
I tip, often generously, never at less than the standard 15%, but I have no illusions about the enforceability of the tipping folkway.
I suggest you run an experiment. Go try to eat at a restaurant and explicitly state your intention not to tip. I predict the waiter will tell you to fuck off, and if the manager gets called out, he'll tell you to fuck off too.
Upvoted. I'll have to try to find time to do this, although I have qualms over the jerkiness of subjecting unsuspecting waitstaff to this experiment. Oh, well -- I guess I'll just have to leave a big tip.
ETA: If my waiter does tell me to fuck off, I won't ask for the manager -- if I'm right, then that would get the waiter fired, and I'm not up for that.
You're not getting off that easily, Cyan. I agree with smoofra, and I'd be willing to front the "unemployment compensation package" on this one -- if the waitress gets fired, I'll pay two weeks of her typical (after tax) income to her.
I think you're forgetting that "announcing intent not to tip" is not very common and your extrapolation from similar scenarios seems hasty.
I also think you were oversimplifying the issue here:
The job requires them to bring out food, but they joined on with the expectation of being tipped. To the extent that they don't expect a tip, they may still bring out the food, but not with the same effort and enthusiasm.
Sure I am. If you want to front the "unemployment compensation package", go ahead and run your own experiment.
...or sabotage the food while I'm not looking. No duh. I'm just saying that I expect they wouldn't refuse to serve me outright.