Roko comments on Fundamentally Flawed, or Fast and Frugal? - Less Wrong

41 Post author: Kaj_Sotala 20 December 2009 03:10PM

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Comment author: Kaj_Sotala 20 December 2009 09:01:16PM *  5 points [-]

Changed tradeoffs. Evolution ‘‘designed’’ the system for operation in one type of environment, but now we wish to deploy it in a very different type of environment

An important question - how changed is the environment, really? Yes, there are plenty of cases where a changed environment is obviously breaking our evolved reasoning algorithms, but I suspect many people might be overstating the difference.

Value discordance. There is a discrepancy between the standards by which evolution measured the quality of her work, and the standards that we wish to apply.

At the risk of falling into a purely semantic discussion, this doesn't mean the algorithms wouldn't be optimal. It just makes them optimized for some other purpose than the one we'd prefer.

Comment deleted 20 December 2009 09:16:08PM *  [-]
Comment author: Kaj_Sotala 20 December 2009 09:45:43PM 4 points [-]

We have to do far more very-long-term planning than in the EEA

As societies, perhaps. As individuals, probably not. I find it a bit odd that you mention a decreased risk of starvation at the same time as this item; needing to look forward a year or preferably several to make sure you didn't run out of food during the winter (or the winter after that) has been a major factor in the past. Even if you lived in a warm country, it seems like there would have been more long-term dangers than there are now, when we have a variety of safety networks and a much safer society.

Most prominently, our explicit beliefs matter more for decision theory than for signalling, whereas in the EEA the opposite was true.

Existential risks excluded, I'm not sure if this is true.

Comment deleted 20 December 2009 10:32:20PM [-]
Comment author: Kaj_Sotala 20 December 2009 10:45:18PM 5 points [-]

Hunter-gatherers, possibly not, but we've had agriculture around for 10,000 years. That has been enough time for other selection effects (for instance, the persistent domestication of cattle, and the associated dairying activities, did alter the selective environments of some human populations for sufficient generations to select for genes that today confer greater adult lactose tolerance), so I'd be cautious about putting too much weight on the hunter-gatherer environment.

Comment deleted 20 December 2009 11:56:08PM [-]
Comment author: MichaelVassar 21 December 2009 10:39:31PM 0 points [-]

Why be needlessly inflammatory?

Comment deleted 22 December 2009 01:03:58AM [-]
Comment author: Nick_Tarleton 23 December 2009 08:30:26PM 0 points [-]

Cultural differences are hard to factor out, too.

Comment author: Larks 23 December 2009 07:54:49PM 1 point [-]

It provides an test for the theory?

Comment deleted 20 December 2009 10:33:28PM [-]
Comment author: Kaj_Sotala 20 December 2009 10:46:40PM 0 points [-]

Granted.