ChristianKl comments on Fundamentally Flawed, or Fast and Frugal? - Less Wrong

41 Post author: Kaj_Sotala 20 December 2009 03:10PM

You are viewing a comment permalink. View the original post to see all comments and the full post content.

Comments (74)

You are viewing a single comment's thread.

Comment author: ChristianKl 20 December 2009 11:59:23PM 1 point [-]

There'a no person who plays chess on a good level while employing Bayesian reasoning.

In Go Bayesian reasoning performs even worse. A good Go player makes some of his move simply because he appreciate their beauty and without having "rational" reasons for them. Our brain is capable of doing very complex pattern matching that allows the best humans to be better at a large variety of tasks than computers which use rule based algorithms.

Comment author: MichaelVassar 21 December 2009 10:33:21PM 1 point [-]

In chess or go idealized Bayesians just make the right move because they are logically omniscient.

Comment author: wedrifid 21 December 2009 11:33:38PM *  2 points [-]

In chess or go idealized Bayesians just make the right move because they are logically omniscient.

Logical omniscience comes close to the perfect move but understanding the imperfections of the opponent can alter what the ideal move is slightly. This requires prior information that can not be derived logically (from the rules of the game).

Comment author: Nick_Hay 21 December 2009 10:52:01PM 1 point [-]

Idealized Bayesians don't have to be logically omniscient -- they can have a prior which assigns probability to logically impossible worlds.

Comment author: ChristianKl 22 December 2009 12:31:15AM -1 points [-]

If you argue that Bayesianism is only a good way to reason when you are omniscient and a bad idea for people who aren't omniscient I can agree with your argument.

If you are however omniscient you don't need much decision theory anyway.

Comment author: [deleted] 22 December 2009 03:14:21AM *  4 points [-]

There's a bit of a difference between logical omniscience and vanilla omniscience: with logical omniscience, you can perfectly work out all the implications of all of the evidence you find, and with the other sort, you get to look a printout of the universe's state.

Comment author: ChristianKl 23 December 2009 11:59:50PM -1 points [-]

But you don't have any of those in the real world and therefore they shouldn't factor into a discussion about effective decision making strategies.

Comment author: [deleted] 26 January 2010 04:37:26AM 0 points [-]

You'll never find perfect equality in the real world, so let's abandon math.

Comment author: ChristianKl 30 January 2010 03:53:56PM -2 points [-]

You will never find evidence for the existence of God, so let's abandon religion...

Comment author: RichardKennaway 30 January 2010 05:47:41PM 1 point [-]

Yes! Already did!

Comment author: ChristianKl 30 January 2010 08:53:57PM 0 points [-]

Where's the difference between believing in nonexistent logical omniscience and believing in nonexistent Gods?

Comment author: [deleted] 22 December 2009 03:10:10AM 0 points [-]

I'd imagine Deep Blue is more approximately Bayesian that a human (search trees vs. giant crazy neural net).

Comment author: Nick_Tarleton 24 December 2009 12:11:29AM *  1 point [-]

I think you mean "cleanly constructed" or something like that. Minimax search doesn't deal with uncertainty at all, whereas good human chess players presumably do so, causally model their opponents, and the like.