Thomas comments on On the Power of Intelligence and Rationality - Less Wrong

13 Post author: alyssavance 23 December 2009 10:49AM

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Comment author: Thomas 24 December 2009 10:16:02AM 3 points [-]

A perfect rationalist can mimic any kind of irrational behavior like Hitler's, for example.

Therefore we can expect, that the SAI may act weird just to utilize our irrationality.

Comment author: MichaelVassar 24 December 2009 03:23:43PM 4 points [-]

True. There aren't even plausibly any perfect rationalists though. In practice, good rationalists don't seem to mimic effective irrational people frequently. Why not?

Comment author: DanArmak 26 December 2009 03:55:14PM *  2 points [-]

wedfrid's right, it's (edit: partly) a selection effect. If they imitated irrational people frequently and well, we wouldn't identify them as rationalists.

Once again, it's the difference between rationality-as-winning and rationality-as-signalling.

Comment author: MichaelVassar 26 December 2009 07:44:07PM 4 points [-]

No, if they imitated irrational people well when doing so was useful we would see many irrational successful people suddenly shift behaviors to different sorts of irrationality or to rationality as their situations changed. We wouldn't be able to predict future weaknesses of successful rational people from past irrationalities but we can do this with successful people who appear irrational.

Comment author: DanArmak 26 December 2009 08:09:11PM 0 points [-]

You're partly right, I'll change my statement: I think it's partly a selection effect.

The most obvious examples are along the lines of pretending to believe in God when atheism is illegal.

Comment author: wedrifid 25 December 2009 12:32:37AM 2 points [-]

In practice, good rationalists don't seem to mimic effective irrational people frequently.

How do we know that?

Comment author: alyssavance 29 December 2009 09:53:02AM 1 point [-]

"A perfect rationalist can mimic any kind of irrational behavior like Hitler's, for example."

What you mean is, AIXI could mimic any kind of irrational behavior. Someone could have perfectly accurate beliefs about everything and still not have Hitler's speechmaking ability.

Comment author: Thomas 29 December 2009 12:28:24PM 1 point [-]

Knowing everything means also knowing what a spoken statement will do inside listeners minds.

Comment author: Nick_Tarleton 29 December 2009 12:36:44PM *  0 points [-]

Which still doesn't mean being able to produce it.

Comment author: Thomas 29 December 2009 12:42:25PM 1 point [-]

Knowing everything means also knowing HOW to produce the best speech. Even more so for all Hitler's, which were probably not the best possible, after all.

Comment author: Dustin 25 December 2009 02:43:14AM 1 point [-]

This is what I always come back to when people talk about the value of rationality.

If the art of rationality is winning, the art of rationality includes the art of behaving in what appears to be an irrational manner to get people to do what you want.