whpearson comments on Are wireheads happy? - Less Wrong
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If dopamine = urge you can make dopamine deficient mice. They don't learn so well...
I would say the study supports the thesis that they learn, but then aren't motivated to act:
"A retest after 24 h showed that DD mice can learn and remember in the absence of dopamine, leading to the inference that the lack of dopamine results in a performance/motivational decrement that masks their learning competence for this relatively simple task."
I really wish I could get into that paper. I'd like to know whether was dopamine precursor given to the rats before the retest to enable eating? If so the learning may have been buffered and acquired through sleep or there is a different method for learning in sleep. I'll see if I can get to it in the next few days.
I'd agree that some learning did occur without dopamine, the knowledge of where to go was learnt. The brain is to complex to mediate all learning with direct feedback. What we are interested in is learning what should be done. That is the behaviour was learnt but that the behaviour should be performed wasn't immediately learnt. Or in other words it didn't know it should be motivated.
There is lots of work on dopamine and learning. I'm currently watching another interesting video on the subject.
Do you know of any related to opioids? All I can find some stuff on fear response learning.
My school let me at the full text of the paper; here 'tis.
Thanks. I'll read it later.
A bad experiment specification: it only tests that brains don't work so well after you damage them. (That is, more detail is absolutely necessary in this case.)
From the link (pretty much the whole content unless you have access)
That is: The mice were made so they couldn't manufacture dopamine naturally due to inability to make a precursor. Some were then given a dopamine precursor suplement they couldn't make that enabled them to make dopamine. These learnt almost as well as mice that could manufacture dopamine by themselves. So they showed that they could make the mice learn almost as well as those without damage by replacing something that was lost.
If this doesn't narrow down things enough, what more do you want?
The dopamine and opiate mechanisms are rather tangled together in practice:
The following study tests the hypothesis that dopamine is an essential mediator of various opiate-induced responses:
http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v438/n7069/full/nature04172.html