Gavin comments on A Suite of Pragmatic Considerations in Favor of Niceness - Less Wrong

82 Post author: Alicorn 05 January 2010 09:32PM

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Comment author: Gavin 06 January 2010 05:47:43AM *  10 points [-]

Good question to ask yourself: When have you thought "that would have ended better if only I'd been a more mean?"

Comment author: ciphergoth 06 January 2010 10:24:03AM 14 points [-]

I've seen many situations where I've thought "that would have ended better if only they'd been prepared to act in a more mean way", but I can't think if I've ever thought "that would have ended better if meaner words had been used".

So it's OK to do the mean thing and tell someone who travelled to your party that they weren't invited and they can't come in if circumstances warrant, but you'll get the best results if you tell them so firmly but as nicely as possible.

I've mentioned my motto here before: as polite as possible, as rude as necessary.

Comment author: MBlume 08 February 2010 08:36:24PM *  8 points [-]

My last relationship.

ETA: Like most snappy retorts, this isn't precisely true. My last relationship would've gone a lot better had I stood up for myself, which could have been done nicely, but which my predisposition to be nice still prevented.

Comment author: Nominull 06 January 2010 07:02:45AM 5 points [-]

If you've ever tried to lead a group, you've probably encountered such a situation. Ruling by fear is not nice, but it is effective.

Comment author: Gavin 06 January 2010 07:18:07AM 4 points [-]

I've certainly been in situations where I wished I'd been more vocal, but there's a difference between being assertive--even commanding--and being mean.

Like anything, nice can certainly be taken too far.

Comment author: MichaelVassar 06 January 2010 11:48:18PM 2 points [-]

I have honestly never seen it done by a person, though I have seen it done in a situation and I have seen people pretend cowardice is niceness.

Comment author: MrHen 06 January 2010 08:37:48PM *  10 points [-]

I am successfully mean all the time. When goals are things like, "I want that person to stop talking and go away," mean works wonders. This isn't even like ciphergoth's "Do a mean thing nicely." I mean blatant, over-the-top sarcasm and public status attacks.

Of course, the best of all worlds is to be mean to your target while appearing nice to the environment. It is sort of like lying with factual truths.

EDIT: Oops, I forgot the actual point. There are times when I stop and think, "I will be nice this time and try more tact." Later, after a night of tiptoeing around the fool, I realize that I should have just been mean.

Comment author: Zebramaedchen 06 January 2010 11:08:09AM 3 points [-]

I'd like to be nice, really. If only there wasn't that fear that has been bothering me … don't nice people have bad sex?

Comment author: ciphergoth 06 January 2010 11:41:37AM 6 points [-]

I think there is some truth to this, but it's because mainstream culture is so screwed up about sex. If you can get onboard the sex-positive train, being nice and having great sex becomes compatible - indeed, being nice becomes a positive advantage, or at least I'm pretty confident it is for me. Start with Greta Christina.

Comment author: MBlume 08 February 2010 08:37:28PM 2 points [-]

Greta Christina is amazing, and I've actually been thinking lately I'd love to get her on board here.