MichaelVassar comments on A Suite of Pragmatic Considerations in Favor of Niceness - Less Wrong

82 Post author: Alicorn 05 January 2010 09:32PM

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Comment author: MichaelVassar 06 January 2010 11:42:44PM 1 point [-]

I can't either, but my basic reaction is simply that in practice purity is critical here. If, in order to act correctly, a person needs to do more than 70 cognitive things correctly, their expected value falls by half for every 1% that they are wrong.

Comment author: dansmith 07 January 2010 12:19:13AM 0 points [-]

Assuming any action anywhere short of optimal results in zero value, sure. In practice?

Comment author: MichaelVassar 07 January 2010 01:05:19AM 0 points [-]

In practice, if you are only talking about the 70 most important steps that people are prone to messing up, that could easily be correct. Not to mention the probability of doing harm. Certainly there are a lot more than 10 steps that people are prone to messing up which reduce value by more than 80% in practice.

Comment author: dansmith 07 January 2010 01:27:11AM 1 point [-]

I suppose it depends what kinds of decisions you're talking about making. (eg keeping AIs from destroying humanity.) I was thinking along the lines of day-to-day decision making, in which people generally manage to survive for decades in spite of ridiculously flawed beliefs -- so it seems there are lots of situations where performance doesn't appear to degrade nearly so sharply.

At any rate, I guess I'm with ciphergoth, the more interesting question is why 99% accurate is "maybe maybe" okay, but 95% is "hell no". Where do those numbers come from?

Comment author: Eliezer_Yudkowsky 07 January 2010 02:09:34AM 1 point [-]

Someone who gets it 99% right is useful to me, someone who gets it 95% right is so much work to deal with that I usually don't bother.

Comment author: PhilGoetz 07 January 2010 02:51:50AM *  3 points [-]

No one gets it 99% right. (Modulo my expectation that we are speaking only of questions of a minimal difficulty; say, at least as difficult as the simplest questions that the person has never considered before.)

When I was a cryptographer, an information source with a .000001% bulge (information content above randomness) would break a code wide open for me. Lack of bias was much more important than % right.

Comment author: Tyrrell_McAllister 07 January 2010 03:30:14AM *  1 point [-]

When I was a cryptographer, an information source with a .000001% bulge (information content above randomness) would break a code wide open for me.

In that case, a second information source of that quality wouldn't have been that much use to you.

The first person who gets it 95% right would be very valuable. But there are diminishing returns.

Comment author: Cyan 07 January 2010 03:04:47AM 1 point [-]

From a curious non-cryptographer: what size of corpus are you talking about here?

Comment author: PhilGoetz 07 January 2010 03:32:57AM *  3 points [-]

You're onto me. Yes, that's with a large corpus. The kind you get when people encrypt non-textual information. So, I lied a little. You need a bigger bulge with shorter messages.

Comment author: Cyan 07 January 2010 05:30:55AM 0 points [-]

I didn't mean to call you out -- I was just curious. A curve of data set size versus required bulge would be interesting.