Zack_M_Davis comments on Rationality Quotes January 2010 - Less Wrong

3 Post author: Zack_M_Davis 07 January 2010 09:36AM

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Comment author: Zack_M_Davis 07 January 2010 09:58:55AM *  -2 points [-]

CHARLIE BROWN: Isn't there anyone---who knows what Christmas is all about?

LINUS: Sure, Charlie Brown, I can tell you what Christmas is all about.

Lights please.

"And there were in the same country shepherds abiding in the field, keeping watch over their flock by night. And, lo, the angel of the Lord came upon them, and the glory of the Lord shone round about them: and they were sore afraid. And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people. For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord. And this shall be a sign unto you; Ye shall find the babe wrapped in swaddling clothes, lying in a manger. And suddenly there was with the angel a multitude of the heavenly host praising God, and saying, Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace, good will toward men."

That's what Christmas is all about, Charlie Brown.

---A Charlie Brown Christmas

(edited to include more context)

Comment author: mattnewport 07 January 2010 05:14:06PM 0 points [-]

I don't understand why this is a rationality quote. Am I missing some context? (I've never read any Charlie Brown books).

Comment author: Zack_M_Davis 07 January 2010 05:21:04PM 1 point [-]

I thought it exemplifies a virtue which is nameless.

Comment author: Alicorn 07 January 2010 05:32:03PM 0 points [-]

In what way does it exemplify that virtue?

Comment author: mattnewport 07 January 2010 05:25:24PM 0 points [-]

Hmm, I still don't get it but thanks for the explanation.

Comment author: Zack_M_Davis 07 January 2010 10:04:24PM *  8 points [-]

Right, so Charlie Brown is frustrated with commercialism and asks if anyone knows what Christmas is all about, and Linus replies by quoting the Bible, reminding Charlie Brown about the religious significance of the day and thereby guarding against loss of purpose. (In our state of knowledge, we don't regard religious observance as a legitimate purpose, but conditioning on the premise that Christianity is true, it would be important to make sure your holidays remain being about Christ, rather than wandering off and becoming about gifts or something.)

I like the indirectness of Linus's reminder (the scene would have been much less effective if Linus had just said, "Well, it's about Jesus"), which is why I referred to the Eliezer's "twelfth virtue" in my (apparently still too opaque) attempt at explanation above. Mere words can only be pointers; they don't in themselves contain the complexity of a thought. The thoughts that you can only invoke indirectly are important. ("You may try to name the highest principle with names such as 'the reason for the season,' 'the true spirit of Chirstmas,' or 'God's word,' but what if &c.)

I like the seeming incongruity of using a religious quote in a Rationality Quotes thread, which on a meta level illustrates that specific ideas can be accepted or rejected on their own merits. Of course Christianity is false, but if a religious quote also demonstrates something true or useful, the irrationality of the source doesn't matter.

Maybe too subtle (judging by the downvotes), but I'm not so sure.

Comment author: SoullessAutomaton 09 January 2010 11:03:01PM *  5 points [-]

Linus replies by quoting the Bible, reminding Charlie Brown about the religious significance of the day and thereby guarding against loss of purpose.

Loss of purpose indeed.

Charlie Brown: Isn't there anyone who knows what Christmas is all about?

Linus: Sure, Charlie Brown, I can tell you what Christmas is all about. Lights, please?

Hear ye the word which the LORD speaketh unto you, O house of Israel:

Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them. For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe.

They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not.

-- Jeremiah 10:1-4

Linus: It's a pagan holiday, Charlie Brown.

Comment author: Vladimir_Nesov 07 January 2010 10:25:03PM 3 points [-]

Right, so Charlie Brown is frustrated with commercialism and asks if anyone knows what Christmas is all about, and Linus replies by quoting the Bible, reminding Charlie Brown about the religious significance of the day and thereby guarding against loss of purpose.

This context is absent in the quote, which makes it impenetrably confusing (and as such, a bad quote).

Comment author: Zack_M_Davis 07 January 2010 10:43:11PM 0 points [-]

Edited to include character names and previous line of dialogue

Comment author: Eliezer_Yudkowsky 07 January 2010 11:35:14PM 4 points [-]

If you haven't grown up in a Christian household or something, this completely fails. It doesn't sound like a reminder of purpose. Just a fail.

Comment author: mattnewport 08 January 2010 12:19:38AM 0 points [-]

It did occur to me after the first attempted explanation that perhaps my unreligious upbringing was why this quote doesn't work for me. My immediate reaction to Linus' quote is simply 'no, that's not what Christmas is about at all' - Christmas has almost nothing to do with religion for me so the quote doesn't work.

Comment author: Technologos 07 January 2010 07:07:10PM 0 points [-]

I believe this is from a tv special; I'm having trouble determining the relevance as well.

One possibility: the extended description of the story, rather than a simple statement of fact or belief, constitutes a warning about the power of contextual imagery in activating availability heuristics.