Tyrrell_McAllister comments on Rationality Quotes January 2010 - Less Wrong

3 Post author: Zack_M_Davis 07 January 2010 09:36AM

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Comment author: Tyrrell_McAllister 08 January 2010 12:37:53AM *  4 points [-]

Are you saying that before the gay movement was high status, most of its representatives acted like homophobia was simply an opinion with which they disagreed, but which they respected nonetheless?

No, I am saying that whatever displays of scorn they made didn't help them gain the sympathy of non-homosexuals, and probably hurt them.

Religious beliefs are, indeed, crazy. I don't see how this fact can ever be acknowledged by the rest of humanity if no one actually acts like it's true, even those who accept it!

I agree that we should act as though religious beliefs are crazy (in Eliezer's sense of the word). The question is, what does it mean to act that way? That is, what is the most productive response to crazy beliefs? I expect that it's not generally contempt.

Comment author: Furcas 08 January 2010 01:05:28AM *  2 points [-]

No, I am saying that whatever displays of scorn they made didn't help them gain the sympathy of non-homosexuals, and probably hurt them.

It may not have gotten them sympathy, but I think labeling the opposing view as bigotry and a phobia could easily have gotten them a higher status, even in the early days of the movement.

Honestly though, I have no idea where to find the information we need to settle this disagreement.

I agree that we should act as though religious beliefs are crazy (in Eliezer's sense of the word). The question is, what does it mean to act that way?

What I mean is that our reaction to someone who says, "I believe that Jesus is the son of God" should be similar to our reaction to someone who says, "I believe aliens are trying to kidnap me".

The reaction can be incredulity, or amusement, or contempt, or something else, anything that doesn't communicate the impression that you think it's perfectly (or mostly) OK to be deluded in such a fashion.

Comment author: Tyrrell_McAllister 08 January 2010 04:15:28PM 3 points [-]

Honestly though, I have no idea where to find the information we need to settle this disagreement.

That's an important question, but one for which I have no answer.

I agree that we should act as though religious beliefs are crazy (in Eliezer's sense of the word). The question is, what does it mean to act that way?

What I mean is that our reaction to someone who says, "I believe that Jesus is the son of God" should be similar to our reaction to someone who says, "I believe aliens are trying to kidnap me".

Okay, just so long as we agree that "what it means to act as though a belief is crazy" isn't something that you ought to define however you like. (As though you were to argue "It's ridiculous. Therefore, by definition, I should ridicule it.") The proper way to act is not something you can determine just by analyzing what "crazy" means, or just by establishing that it's not okay to have crazy beliefs. The proper way to act is determined by what will in fact change the world into a state more like it ought to be.

If you're right about the history of the acceptance of homosexuality, then that is some evidence in favor of your position.

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