MrHen comments on The Wannabe Rational - Less Wrong

31 Post author: MrHen 15 January 2010 08:09PM

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Comment author: MrHen 15 January 2010 10:04:28PM *  5 points [-]

Are you saying that the difference between your examples is enough to include me or exclude me from LessWrong? Or is the difference in how you in particular relate to me here? What actions revolve around the differences you see in those examples?

Comment author: Kevin 15 January 2010 10:44:40PM *  4 points [-]

I don't think we would exclude someone solely on the basis of belief, as one of the goals here is to educate.

I'm not sure there is much action involved, but people might treat you differently if you admitted to being an evangelical Christian compared to being a believer because you are uncomfortable giving into the nihilism of non-belief

Edit: After rereading your post, yes, there are rational religious people. I have a few friends of the type, and I think the most important part of being a rational religious person is admitting that belief is irrational, steeped in feelings of culture or helplessness rather than convincing evidence. It's a slippery slope though, if you keep thinking about it you may find it hard to hold onto your belief.

Maybe in a few days you should make a top-level post about your beliefs and we can try to examine the reasons why you believe the way you do, and try and understand why you are comfortable with conflicting beliefs. No pitchforks, I promise, you seem to know the linguistic patterns to use here so that no one will pounce on you.

Comment author: MrHen 16 January 2010 04:08:50PM 4 points [-]

It's a slippery slope though, if you keep thinking about it you may find it hard to hold onto your belief.

If I cannot hold onto a belief it isn't worth holding on to.

Maybe in a few days you should make a top-level post about your beliefs and we can try to examine the reasons why you believe the way you do, and try and understand why you are comfortable with conflicting beliefs. No pitchforks, I promise, you seem to know the linguistic patterns to use here so that no one will pounce on you.

My current plan is to inch into the heavy topics with a few basic posts about belief, doubt, and self-delusion. But I know some of these things are discussed elsewhere because I remember someone at OB talking about the plausibility of self-delusion.

In any case, I am still working through the Sequences. I expect a lot of my questions are answered there.

Comment author: Technologos 16 January 2010 12:45:27AM 1 point [-]

I agree with Kevin that belief is insufficient for exclusion/rejection. Best I can tell, it's not so much what you believe that matters here as what you say and do: if you sincerely seek to improve yourself and make this clear without hostility, you will be accepted no matter the gap (as you have found with this post and previous comments).

The difference between the beliefs Kevin cited lies in the effect they may have on the perspective from which you can contribute ideas. Jefferson's deism had essentially no effect on his political and moral philosophizing (at least, his work could easily have been produced by an atheist). Pat Robertson's religiosity has a great deal of effect on what he says and does, and that would cause a problem.

The fact that you wrote this post suggests you are in the former category, and I for one am glad you're here.

Comment author: orthonormal 16 January 2010 03:06:07AM 7 points [-]

Best I can tell, it's not so much what you believe that matters here as what you say and do

I agree with the rest of your comment, but this seems very wrong to me. I'd say rather that the unity we (should) look for on LW is usually more meta-level than object-level, more about pursuing correct processes of changing belief than about holding the right conclusions. Object-level understanding, if not agreement, will usually emerge on its own if the meta-level is in good shape.

Comment author: Technologos 16 January 2010 07:03:27PM 1 point [-]

Indeed, I agree--I meant that it doesn't matter what conclusions you hold as much as how you interact with people as you search for them.