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wedrifid comments on The Wannabe Rational - Less Wrong
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I should think it would not apply to any well-defined assertion of fact -- e.g "The universe was created by a conscious entity" is a statement we could discuss further -- though "There is evidence that the universe was created by a conscious entity" would be better, because then we are one step further into the dialogue.
Better still would be to add "...and that evidence is [insert argument here]", because then we have a specific line of reasoning to look at and say "No, this doesn't make sense because [fill in counter-argument]", allowing the other person to then explain why our counter is wrong... and so on.
As it is... can we even have a discussion about whether the Gostak distims the Doshes, or whether it is rational to believe that this is true? Not really, because the terms are undefined; we don't know what is being "believed". Same with "God", even though we know what might be (indeed, probably is) intended.
Thinking about it, this phenomenon of having a few handy exceptions to a generally-reliable rule is something frequently exploited by theists (and faitheists).
Theists freely use "God" as a club 99% of the time, to bash people into line and promote their meme, but then on those few occasions when they are backed into a corner by a skeptic they can always say "This? Oh no no, this isn't a club for bashing people, it's just a piece of found art I like to keep on my desk and through which I enjoy contemplating nature's beauty."
So it's very important to identify what we're talking about. If MrHen claims his God is really just a piece of found art, then we have rational grounds for objection if we ever see him using it as a club. If he openly admits that it's a club, then we can object on rational grounds to the idea of bashing people.
It seems you have suffered from the blunt end of a selection effect.
Perhaps:
It depends what context we're sampling from. I was thinking of discussion in the media, and/or politics in general, where religion's main contribution seems to be as I described it: demands that the speaker's particular beliefs be given precedence because they come "from God" -- a club for bashing people into line.
Yes, the 99% figure was overprecise; I probably should have said "the overwhelming majority of the time". It would be an interesting study to actually count the number of "bashing people into line" usages versus all other political uses of religion; perhaps religion-based pleas for charity and mercy don't get counted because they seem sane -- something anyone reasonable would say -- so my unconscious reference-counter doesn't add them to religion's score.
In any case, your definition-swapping with the word "club" completely misses my point. To whatever extent MrHen uses God as a club-for-joining (what I called a "social label"), I have no objection.
It is the other sort of club I want MrHen either to specifically reject or defend: does he accept such usage of "belief in God" (if someone says God said it, it must be true), or do reason and critical thinking prevail if someone tries to persuade him that he must do X because of his belief?