Dustin comments on Normal Cryonics - Less Wrong

58 Post author: Eliezer_Yudkowsky 19 January 2010 07:08PM

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Comment author: Dustin 20 January 2010 08:17:36PM * 3 points [-]

My current life insurance policy is what is called "term life insurance". It is good for a term of 20 years.

The payout if I die within those 20 years is $500,000.

My monthly premium is $40 for that whole 20 years.

You can get an instant online quote here. You don't have to put in real name and email address.

Comment author: taw 21 January 2010 07:03:44AM 2 points [-]

Even assuming best health class - something which won't happen as you age.

Age 27, quotes: 250-600
Age 47, quotes: 720-1970
Age 67, quotes: 6550-13890
Age 77: nobody willing to provide insurance

In other words, this is exactly what I was talking about - it's a big fat lie to pretend your premium won't change as you age.

Comment author: Dustin 21 January 2010 07:42:00PM * 3 points [-]

I'm 32. I fit in the "Preferred" health group. 30 year term life insurance with a 100k payout is 168/year as per the quotes page I provided above.

As AngryParsley mentions, if you purchase term life insurance you're planing on having savings to cover your needs after your policy expires. This is my plan.

However, I suppose in say 15 years, I could purchase another 30 year/100k term insurance policy. Let's say I slip a category to "Standard Plus".

My premium will be 550/year. That of course assumes I didn't save anything during those 15 years (not to mention the remaining 15 years in the original policy) and need a 100k policy.

Comment author: taw comment score below threshold [+] (3 children)

Comment author: AngryParsley 21 January 2010 07:07:53AM 4 points [-]

Term life insurance is not the only type available. Most people who get term life insurance plan on having enough money saved up by the time the term runs out. Whole life insurance has no change in premium for the entire lifetime of the insured.

Comment author: taw comment score below threshold [+] (15 children)

Comment author: AngryParsley 21 January 2010 07:22:49AM * 3 points [-]

You asked before and I replied:

I have a policy with Kansas City Life Insurance:

All these benefits come with a guarantee that your premium won’t change. The basic premium you agree to now will remain the same throughout the life of your policy.

So umm... yeah. That's how life insurance usually works.

ETA: This is the first time I've heard, "life insurance doesn't work" as an objection to cryonics.

Comment author: taw 21 January 2010 11:27:25AM -1 points [-]

And what are their premiums? They simply have to be far higher than form 25 year old's 20 year term life insurance if their business is to make any profits. The only low premiums I've seen so far are for young people's term life insurance, which people keep naively extrapolating ignoring aging.

I'm really disappointed that this supposedly rational community keeps failing basic math. The entire "cryonics is cheap" argument relies on failing basic math.

Comment author: AngryParsley 21 January 2010 06:04:32PM * 3 points [-]

Again, I replied in the very same thread I linked to.

Remember that a lot of people who get life insurance policies cancel them before they die, or fall on hard times and can't pay the premiums. I'm 24 and healthy. I went the more expensive route and got whole life insurance, so my premiums are $64/month. With Alcor dues I end up spending about a grand per year on cryonics. Did I mention I picked what is basically the most expensive option? (Alcor whole body preservation with whole life insurance). You could easily cut that down to $300/year if you went with CI and term life insurance.

$64 * 12 * 50 = $38,400, which is a bit less than the policy of $200k. If that money were invested every month, it would end up being significantly more than the policy amount.

Term life insurance is not a bad idea for most people. Lots of people save up money over their careers. $80,000 is barely a down payment on a condo in the bay area.

Comment author: Technologos 21 January 2010 07:31:55PM 1 point [-]

I should note that most of the organizations we are talking about (Alcor, ACS, CI) are non-profits.

Comment author: wedrifid 21 January 2010 12:00:33PM 1 point [-]

I'm really disappointed that this supposedly rational community keeps failing basic math. The entire "cryonics is cheap" argument relies on failing basic math.

$80,000 plus $500 a year in membership dues is cheap. (Alcor). I can multiply, divide and find various integrals and derivatives of those figures if it makes you happy. Perhaps it is my English skills that are my flaw? You dispute my understanding of 'cheap'?

Comment author: taw 21 January 2010 02:39:34PM * 2 points [-]

80k is for neuro-preservation, full body is 150k. Neither of them counts as "cheap" by any definition of "cheap". It's also at least an order of magnitude more expensive than what Eliezer keeps talking about ($300/year).

Comment author: Eliezer_Yudkowsky 21 January 2010 06:39:28PM 3 points [-]

CI is $50K for whole-body.

Comment author: CronoDAS 21 January 2010 06:58:47PM 0 points [-]

I thought their current website said $30K, if you don't contract for standby services?

continue this thread »

Comment author: taw 21 January 2010 09:48:59PM 0 points [-]

This reference says it's much more if you include all costs:

The Cryonics Institute charges $28,000 for perfusion and storage of an Lifetime Member and $35,000 for a Yearly Member. [...] For service more comparable to what Alcor provides — including Standby and Transport — a Lifetime Member pays $88,000 and a Yearly Member pays $95,000. For details on CI pricing see Membership and Details Concerning SA Standby and Transport for CI Members.

continue this thread »

Comment author: RobinZ 21 January 2010 04:40:14PM 0 points [-]

The $300/year is supposed to be the insurance rate for a $100k policy, but I agree - that is not cheap. I am likely to make enough money to afford it if I stay on my current career plan (mechanical engineering), but it's not a negligible sum.

Comment author: wedrifid 21 January 2010 11:09:11PM * 0 points [-]

Neither of them counts as "cheap" by any definition of "cheap".

Dollars per expected day of life extension. Applying the same definition to other health investments makes cryonics the 'cheap' option. I agree that this is probably not the definition used by some advocates.

It's also at least an order of magnitude more expensive than what Eliezer keeps talking about ($300/year).

Yes. (Well, if you use binary or base 4.)

Comment author: wedrifid 21 January 2010 07:27:41AM * 1 point [-]

Downvoted for going against taw's Outside the influence of evidence View?

Dustin comments on Normal Cryonics - Less Wrong

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