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byrnema comments on What big goals do we have? - Less Wrong
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We're the product of evolution, yes? That's what I meant by 'designed'.
When I drive to the store, I have a reason: to buy milk. I also have a reason to buy milk. I also have a reason for that. A chain of reasons ending in a terminal value given to me by evolution -- something you and I consider 'good'. However, I have no loyalty to evolution. Why should I care about the terminal value it instilled in me? Well, I understand it made me care. I also understand that the rebellion I feel about being forced to do everything is also the product of evolution. And I finally understand that there's no limit in how bad the experience can be for me as a result of these conflicting desires. I happen to be kind of OK (just angry) but the universe would just look on, incuriously, if I decided to go berserk and prove there was no God by showing there is no limit on how horrible the universe could be. How's that for a big goal?
I imagine that somebody who cares about me will suggest I don't post anything for a while, until I feel more sociable. I'll take that advice.
Why would you feel differently about God? It always struck me that if God existed he had to be a tremendous asshole given all the suffering in the world. Reading the old testament certainly paints a picture of a God I would have no loyalty to and would have no reason to care about his terminal values. Evolution seems positively benevolent by comparison.
You shouldn't care about your values because they're instilled in you by evolution, your true alien Creator. It is the same mistake as believing you have to behave morally because God says so. You care about your values not because of their historical origin or specifically privileged status, but because they happen to be the final judge of what you care about.
Is this a fair summary:
Or is this closer:
I am guessing the former. Feel free to take a good break if you want. We'll be here when you get back. :)
What would you infer from my choice? I honestly cannot tell the difference between the two statements.
Well, the difference is mostly semantic but this is a good way to reveal minor differences in definitions that are not inherently obvious. If you see them as the same than they are same for the purposes of the conversation which is all I needed to know. :)
The reason I asked for clarification is that this sentence:
Can be read by some as:
To which I immediately thought, "Wait, if it is the reason, why isn't that the reason?" The problem is just a collision of the terms "design" and "reason." By replacing "design" with "cause" and "reason" with "purpose" your meaning was made clear.