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TruePath comments on Complexity of Value ≠ Complexity of Outcome - Less Wrong
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There are a lot of posts here that presuppose some combination of moral anti-realism and value complexity. These views go together well: if value is not fundamental, but dependent on characteristics of humans, then it can derive complexity from this and not suffer due to Occam's Razor.
There are another pair of views that go together well: moral realism and value simplicity. Many posts here strongly dismiss these views, effectively allocating near-zero probability to them. I want to point out that this is a case of non-experts being very much at odds with expert opinion and being clearly overconfident. In the Phil Papers survey for example, 56.3% of philosophers lean towards or believe realism, while only 27.7% lean towards or accept anti-realism.
http://philpapers.org/surveys/results.pl
Given this, and given comments from people like me in the intersection of the philosophical and LW communities who can point out that it isn't a case of stupid philosophers supporting realism and all the really smart ones supporting anti-realism, there is no way that the LW community should have anything like the confidence that it does on this point.
Moreover, I should point out that most of the realists lean towards naturalism, which allows a form of realism that is very different to the one that Eliezer critiques. I should also add that within philosophy, the trend is probably not towards anti-realism, but towards realism. The high tide of anti-realism was probably in the middle of the 20th Century, and since then it has lost its shiny newness and people have come up with good arguments against it (which are never discussed here...).
Even for experts in meta-ethics, I can't see how their confidence can get outside the 30%-70% range given the expert disagreement. For non-experts, I really can't see how one could even get to 50% confidence in anti-realism, much less the kind of 98% confidence that is typically expressed here.
The right response to moral realism isn't to dispute it's truth but to simply observe you don't understand the concept.
I mean imagine someone started going around insisting some situations were Heret and others were Grovic but when asked to explain what made a situation Heret or Grovic he simply shrugged and said they were primitive concepts. But you persist and after observing his behavior for a period of time you work out some principle that perfectly predicts which category he will assign a given situation to, even counterfactually but when you present the algorithm to him and ask, "Ohh so is it satisfying this principle that makes one Heret rather than Grovic?" he insists that while your notion will always agrees with his notion that's not what he means. Moreover, he insists that no definition in terms of physical state could capture these concepts.
Confused you press him and he says that there are special things which we can't casually interact with that determine Heret or Grovic status. Bracketing your skepticism you ask him to say what properties these new ontological objects must have. After listing a couple he adds that most importantly they can't just be random things with this structure but they also have to be Heret making or Grovic making and that's what distingushes them from all the other casually inaccessible things out there that might otherwise yield some slightly different class of things as Heret and Grovic.
Frustrated you curse the guy saying he hasn't really told you anything since you didn't know what it meant to be Heret or Grovic in the first place so you surely don't know what it means to be Heret making or Grovic making. The man's reply is simply to shrug and say, "well it's a fundamental concept, if you don't understand I can't explain it to you anymore than I could explain the perceptual experience of redness to a man who had never experienced color."
In such a situation the only thing you can do is give up on the notion of Heret and Grovic. Debating about whether to say it's an incoherent notion, a concept you lack the facilities to comprehend or something else would just waste time with a useless word game. Ultimately you just have to ignore such talk as something that lacks content for you and treat it the same way as you would meaningless gibberish.
The fact that when moral realists say the same thing about good and evil they are using the same sounds that we understand to mean something different shouldn't change the situation at all.