bgrah449 comments on Bizarre Illusions - Less Wrong

11 Post author: MrHen 27 January 2010 06:25PM

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Comment author: bgrah449 28 January 2010 10:53:47PM 1 point [-]

I made my main point in the other comment, and I don't want to include these two comments together because I don't want the other to be ignored, but health is an objective measure, whereas pleasure is not.

First of all, I think you're ignoring that there are some practices that, despite making some people like an activity, will not make other people like the activity - i.e., that placebo will work on some people, but not other people, so to that extent, there is something marginally "real" (under your definition) there.

I understand what you mean very much; I've spent a ridiculous amount of time thinking about it over the past decade. Cognitive dissonance seems like a weak trait when you notice it in someone else, either to change your values to dislike the inaccessible or the reverse, to change your values to like the accessible.

But why? I tend to like things I'm better at than most of the people I know, like math and arguing and pointing out other people's cognitive dissonance. Why should I expect other people to be any different?

In the end, the "liking" part is really, like you pointed out, liking the taste of status more than the taste of alcohol. But I enjoy spicy food, despite not liking it originally, either. I didn't like hip-hop, but I figured there must be something there that attracts so many people; now I like some. I didn't like a bunch of popular TV shows, but I didn't want to assume that all the ways I'm different from people who did like those TV shows were ways I was better; what if they were ways I was worse? So I watched a bunch of them. Most of them still suck, but I found I like House and Big Love, despite thinking beforehand only idiots could like those shows.

I agree with you to some extent - if I have to have someone telling me I'm cool for me to enjoy it, I don't want to partake. But that's not because it's less "pure," it's because I've done activities like that before and it's not fun not being in control of when I can enjoy myself.

I have been telling people for years that the difference between people who like alcohol and people who don't is that the people who don't didn't have a peer group to pressure them to drink their first 5 beers. That's true with me and with almost everyone I know (although there are some who claim they liked beer right away, and I even believe a few of them).

But now even when I'm alone, do I enjoy having a beer and relaxing? Yes, very much. Would I like beer if it weren't for the alcohol's effects of relaxing me? Probably not, no. But that doesn't change that the alcohol has changed how much I enjoy the taste of beer, because now it actually tastes good. That doesn't seem disingenuous to me. I don't experience the enjoyment any less, so it's hard for me to discredit it due to the fact that the way I got to that point was through trying to not look stupid to my friends when they gave me a beer for the first time.