Eliezer_Yudkowsky comments on Logical Rudeness - Less Wrong

65 Post author: Eliezer_Yudkowsky 29 January 2010 06:48AM

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Comment author: Douglas_Knight 30 January 2010 01:41:28AM 2 points [-]

He would never say anything like that, though. So he would update on new evidence, but he wouldn't give anyone the satisfaction of crowing over it -- which crowing, I would say, is another type of logical rudeness.

The crowing seems unhealthy, for both parties.

Also, I find that the correlation between people admitting defeat in an argument and actually changing minds is so low that having everyone behave like this person might not destroy any information about what arguments work. But it seems useful to do a post-mortem at a later, calmer date. When he comes back with a new belief, it would be useful to know (1) that he changed it and (2) why.

Comment author: Eliezer_Yudkowsky 30 January 2010 01:44:37AM 3 points [-]

The crowing seems unhealthy, for both parties.

Really? This very day, someone said FAIL to me, I admitted it, and I'm still alive and healthy. I've already lived through an arguer's worst nightmare, and it doesn't seem to have harmed me much.

Comment author: komponisto 30 January 2010 02:58:44AM 9 points [-]

Other people are different.

Speaking for myself, I find it very unpleasant to be on the receiving end of crowing. Hence I have a much easier time admitting mistakes to people I particularly trust not to crow. (One of the nice things about LW is that there isn't much crowing here, which makes mind-changing and fessing up easier. I'd definitely like to keep it that way.)

Comment author: sketerpot 04 February 2010 02:01:31AM 10 points [-]

There's a really easy trick for conceding a debate without being crowed at. The trick is to admit that you were wrong, concisely explain the change you've made to your beliefs, and warmly thank the other person for taking the time to help you become correct about this. Even if they were a bit of a dick in the debate itself. Don't declare defeat; declare a mutual victory of truth.

Anybody who can crow about your defeat after that is a huge asshole, and furthermore this should be obvious to anybody watching.

(This trick also makes you feel better about changing your mind, because you've reclassified it as a victory. I've had a much easier time conceding debates ever since I adopted this habit and mindset.)

Comment author: Eliezer_Yudkowsky 30 January 2010 07:35:58AM 3 points [-]

I wasn't born different, AFAIK. I've been training myself.

Though you know, even in the absence of training, I think a considerable majority of people wouldn't actually drop dead.

Comment author: Unknowns 30 January 2010 07:40:47AM 5 points [-]

Although according to Robin Hansen, low status significantly reduces life expectancy, so presumably every time someone crows, your life expectancy goes down by some amount.

Comment author: Wei_Dai 30 January 2010 09:24:24AM 2 points [-]

presumably every time someone crows, your life expectancy goes down by some amount

On the other hand, maybe your IQ goes up a few points.

Comment author: Kevin 30 January 2010 07:49:44AM 1 point [-]
Comment author: Douglas_Knight 30 January 2010 11:55:45PM 0 points [-]

I suspect a perfect scan would have literally showed that my brain was reading "Thomas" as "Tim_Tyler" every time.

does not sound like a healthy response to me. (I'm not disputing the truth of the claim.)

Comment author: wedrifid 31 January 2010 10:37:58AM *  1 point [-]

In other words, tim_tyler (WRONG: this was Thomas, and as some observed, FAIL) was misstating my previous position (as a quotation no less!)

This does seem like a healthy response to me.

Comment author: ciphergoth 30 January 2010 09:14:04AM 0 points [-]

Neener neener neener, Eliezer was wroooong!

(the wroooong has to stretch across two syllables to fit the meter)

Comment author: Kevin 30 January 2010 09:18:38AM 0 points [-]

Now all we need is a fanperson to compile every single time Eliezer has been wrong on the internet. :D