Rain comments on Rationality Quotes: February 2010 - Less Wrong

2 Post author: wedrifid 01 February 2010 06:39AM

You are viewing a comment permalink. View the original post to see all comments and the full post content.

Comments (322)

You are viewing a single comment's thread.

Comment author: Rain 01 February 2010 12:41:51PM 7 points [-]

The activist is not the man who says the river is dirty. The activist is the man who cleans up the river.

-- H. Ross Perot

Comment author: Eliezer_Yudkowsky 02 February 2010 07:49:03PM 11 points [-]

To take advantage of professional specialization, gains from trade, capital infrastructure, comparative advantage, and economies of scale, the way grownups do it when they actually care, I'd say that the activist is the one who pays someone else to clean up the river.

Comment author: ciphergoth 01 February 2010 03:29:37PM 9 points [-]

If people don't realise that the river is dirty and that's causing problems, changing that is valuable work by itself.

Comment author: ciphergoth 02 February 2010 04:32:11PM 5 points [-]

The more I read this quote the more I hate it. It is an anti-rationality quote. It says, if you are not rich enough to run as an independent Presidential candidate, if you're not in a position to make a difference by yourself, if all the power you have is your voice, then shut up; leave action to the rich and powerful, without criticism. That your voice has power is part of the point of democracy, and it's not hard to see why a man like Perot might prefer to make that sound less legitimate.

Comment author: Tiiba 20 February 2010 06:51:20AM 0 points [-]

I doubt that was the intended meaning. He's just encouraging you to do something. Doesn't have to be big.

Comment author: ciphergoth 20 February 2010 11:35:20AM 0 points [-]

No, in the first sentence he's explicitly denigrating those who speak up.

Comment author: Tiiba 21 February 2010 12:34:01AM *  2 points [-]

..for being all talk.

I can see how you might have come to your conclusion, but saying it's "explicit" is just not true.

Comment author: SilasBarta 01 February 2010 07:24:22PM *  4 points [-]

That doesn't sound like an activist. That sounds like "sucker doing other people's work for free", which doesn't sound like an effective plan for bringing about positive change -- those people tend to "weed themselves out" over the long run.

I'm not saying you shouldn't do things to make the world a better place, like: not litter, drive courteously, etc. (Although you should be careful about which things actually accomplish a net good.) "Be the change you want in the world" (attr. Ghandi) is a good motto to keep. I'm just saying that you shouldn't expect major problems to get solved by Someone Else at no cost to you, nor complain about someone pointing out the dirty river instead of immediately cleaning it up.

Comment author: Rain 01 February 2010 10:30:54PM *  3 points [-]

Personally, I'm very good at discovering what's wrong with a process or situation. I can detect flaws easily and accurately. What I've found I need is someone who, after I've done my analysis, will look me in the eye and say, "OK. So how do we fix it?"

Without that simple question, I find that far too often I stop at the identification step, shaking my head at the deplorable state of affairs.

Comment author: wedrifid 02 February 2010 02:55:53AM 1 point [-]

The question analogous to to the Perot quote would be "So why don't you fix it?".

Comment author: ciphergoth 02 February 2010 03:49:13PM *  4 points [-]

So for example, it would make sense for me to try and personally swoop in and free Chinese political prisoners, but if I'm not prepared to do that, I shouldn't protest their incarceration.

I don't think this rule leads to the right kind of behavour.

Comment author: wedrifid 02 February 2010 04:07:58PM 0 points [-]

I don't think this rule leads to the right kind of behavour.

It doesn't, and it annoys me. That makes me quite ambivalent about the quote.

Comment author: SilasBarta 02 February 2010 04:37:15PM 0 points [-]

How is this comment responsive to my point or supportive of the original post?

Comment author: magfrump 02 February 2010 04:48:33PM 2 points [-]

Does this work better for you?:

"The rationalist is not the man who complains about biases. The rationalist is the man who works to understand his biases."

(coin-flipped for male)