Matt_Simpson comments on Applying utility functions to humans considered harmful - Less Wrong

26 Post author: Kaj_Sotala 03 February 2010 07:22PM

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Comment author: Matt_Simpson 08 February 2010 05:12:05AM 1 point [-]

I replied to the minimum wage stuff a little in another post...

Where?

insider trading laws

You wouldn't only think this was a problem if you were a proponent of the strong efficient market hypothesis. There aren't many people out there that don't have misgivings about the weak version, much less the strong one.

If the efficient market hypothesis false, I still think insider trading laws are a bad idea. The people with the best information about the health of a company are precisely the insiders. This is the sort of information that investors would love to have when deciding whether to commit resources to one company or another, and the sort of information which would be socially useful for investors to be acting on. None of this requires the efficient markets hypothesis, just that markets do process information, even if imperfectly.

income tax/capital gains tax Hmm. I'll let you explain further. Is it that these are less efficient than other taxes, or is it that they are the way government raise revenue?

Less efficient than other taxes. As a general rule, you never want to tax production - it discourages productive activities. Capital gains is different because it isn't production per se, but savvy trading - even on the stock market - serves a socially useful function. (Yes, that means I like speculators)

The other ones could be interesting to debate, but I think you are a pretty serious libertarian who will not be happy unless society is organized in your way.

I am a libertarian, but probably not as serious as you think. Has it occurred to you that I'm mainly just reporting the collective knowledge of economists?

By the way, you still haven't explained why you want economists to have less influence, or what you want them to have less influence on.

Comment author: Douglas_Knight 08 February 2010 06:00:37AM 4 points [-]

I am a libertarian, but probably not as serious as you think. Has it occurred to you that I'm mainly just reporting the collective knowledge of economists?

You are reporting the collective knowledge of economists as reported to you by libertarians. Most economists are not libertarians and most support the status quo. Look for a survey of economists' opinions, eg, by Robert Whaples. They probably lean in your direction on all these issues, compared to the general public, but that does not mean they support them in absolute terms. eg, half want to eliminate the minimum wage, but half want it as is or higher.

Comment author: Matt_Simpson 08 February 2010 05:45:02PM 1 point [-]

I wasn't aware that there was such an even split on the minimum wage, thanks. (One of the citations in the ejw article you linked to below provided the evidence)

I tried to pick items that I thought there was a general consensus on in the profession. Apparently I was wrong about the minimum wage. Looking back on my list, I would also be worried about insider trading laws (I'm sure it's controversial), the capital gains tax, and probably the post office. I was intentionally vague about which subsidies economists would dislike because they aren't necessarily bad (and economists don't necessarily dilike them), but ethanol is one there is probably some agreement on. Tariffs and the income tax I'm also pretty confident in. Fannie and freddy I'm less confident in, but still pretty sure about. Note that the ejw article you linked supports my assertions about tariffs and the ethanol case of subsidies.

Comment author: Jack 08 February 2010 06:13:40AM 0 points [-]

Do you happen to have a link to a Whaples survey on general economic policy issues? Everything I see is behind a subscription.

Comment author: Douglas_Knight 08 February 2010 06:28:55AM 2 points [-]

ejw is not gated.

economists' voice is gated, but has some kind of guest access.

Comment author: rortian 08 February 2010 07:30:03AM 0 points [-]

Let me just endorse what Douglas Knight said.

You seem to have no clue what insider trading laws are. Company employees and executives can purchase stock. However it is illegal to act on information that is not public.

You can look for filings to see what executives are purchasing positions in their companies. Like you say, it is good sign if people who know the company well are buying in.

Comment author: Matt_Simpson 08 February 2010 04:58:11PM 1 point [-]

You seem to have no clue what insider trading laws are. Company employees and executives can purchase stock. However it is illegal to act on information that is not public.

My point is that insider trading makes nonpublic information public.

Comment author: rortian 08 February 2010 08:32:02PM 0 points [-]

Securities law does that.