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byrnema comments on Deception and Self-Doubt - Less Wrong
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Comments (34)
We (three) seem to agree that the friend resorted to emotional thinking... and that would be the reason he was careless or abusive of factual truths.
But I'm not convinced this is evidence that his 'facts are weak', because, actually, is there any fact in the matter of whether a government is efficient? In other words, were they discussing something for which facts were entirely the most relevant parameter? His friend shouldn't have lied about a fact, but when in arguing-an-impression-mode, facts seem much more often useful as rhetorical devices than actual evidence.
Not disagreeing with your overall point but...
"...is there any fact in the matter of whether a government is efficient?"
I think yes, although it's sticky to define. Take a reductio of extreme cases: say, Somalia vs. Sweden. I think in this context it is clear there is a fact of the matter.
Efficiency should be some sort of ratio of benefit to cost. Somalia has a feeble government and no effective taxation; Sweden has a lot of both. This does not determine the relation between the ratios. For low benefit/high cost, the pre-1989 USSR would be a better example.
I didn't think Psychohistorian meant "efficiency" in the technical sense, but yeah, I see what you're saying.
Assuming Psychohistorian's friend was arguing in favor of the efficiency of the Chinese government, I think the argument was really about the relatively collectivist morals of the Chinese people and government compared to the morality of the US people and government.
In the USA, most people probably think that the USA government is more efficient than the Chinese government because the USA is more "good" than the Chinese. Most Chinese people don't think the government has a duty to be "good", but should instead be focused on relentless growth and strong national unity. The USA government is indeed more "good" than the CCP, but the CCP is indeed focusing on relentless growth and national unity which makes it seem very efficient to people with Urban Residency Permits. It probably doesn't seem so efficient to the Chinese people that don't have Urban Residency Permits.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hukou_system