byrnema comments on Open Thread: February 2010, part 2 - Less Wrong

10 Post author: CronoDAS 16 February 2010 08:29AM

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Comment author: byrnema 23 February 2010 04:35:48AM *  0 points [-]

Yeah.

So if they wanted to be monists, they would reject their 2D-science and say that while 2D-science apparently seems to be a good approximation of most things, it's only an approximation as apparently reality enables square-escape. They try to look for extensions of 2D science that make sense and are consistent with what they observe about square-escape, but just haven't solved the problem yet.

If they wanted to be dualists, they would say that in one magisterium, 2D science applies. Any non-2D stuff that goes on belongs to that separate, independent magisterium they'll call Xhi, a word which is really just a placeholder for 'the third dimension' until they discover it.

Comment author: Jack 23 February 2010 04:56:42AM 0 points [-]

Will the Flatlanders theorize about Xhi? Will they have knowledge of it? Are there facts about Xhi?

Comment author: byrnema 23 February 2010 05:11:26AM 0 points [-]

Why do you ask?

Comment author: Jack 23 February 2010 05:25:30AM *  1 point [-]

I was just trying to clarify my interpretation of what you're saying. Because if they are theorizing of Xhi, if there are facts about Xhi and if they are seeking knowledge of it it seems clear that they ought to be doing science (in the general epistemological sense I was using earlier) to form these theories and discover these facts. This of course does not demonstrate that the two magesteria, as you've formulated them, are incoherent.

But I'm not sure if you are talking about the same thing Gould (and presumably Eliezer) are talking about. I took Gould to be saying that this second magesterium isn't just a subject or set of subjects about which our particular scientific facts and scientific principles can say nothing. Rather, I believe Gould is saying that the magesterium of faith consists of areas of thought or subjects for which the scientific community, the scientific method and inductive empiricism itself cease to apply. Moreover, they don't only not apply because we've chosen a way of seeing these areas of thought that doesn't involve scientific epistemology, they don't apply as a matter of principle-- it is a category error to try and apply the tools of science to the domain of religion.

Edit: And like I said: that looks like nonsense to me.