SirBacon comments on Things You Can't Countersignal - Less Wrong

51 Post author: Alicorn 19 February 2010 12:18AM

You are viewing a comment permalink. View the original post to see all comments and the full post content.

Comments (122)

You are viewing a single comment's thread.

Comment author: SirBacon 19 February 2010 04:46:09AM 11 points [-]

Irony is a means of simultaneously signalling and countersignalling.

By ironically obeying correct social forms, it is possible to receive status from conventional culture and counter-culture. The conventional culture does not want to admit that it is the butt of irony, and the counterculture likes people who score points off of the conventional culture. Is anyone aware of research into irony as a signalling strategy?

Comment author: Stuart_Armstrong 19 February 2010 11:50:00AM 17 points [-]

Saying X="I'm dropping out of school to join a doomsday cult" in a blatantly ironic way gives you the benefits of implying 'to unschooled eyes, it would appear that X - don't be unschooled' along with 'I'm sophisticated enough to be aware that certain aspects my decision look as if X' and 'I'm confident enough about my decision to make light of this', before finally concluding 'but of course, it's not actually true that X'.

Irony signals a lot.

Comment author: Eliezer_Yudkowsky 19 February 2010 06:14:03AM 2 points [-]

Have you ever done this? Example?

Comment author: ata 21 February 2010 12:43:39PM *  11 points [-]

I was once at a very indie film festival which had some very indie bands playing before the films started, and the hot-pink-haired lead singer of one of the bands had a Hannah Montana shirt. To this crowd, that sent an unmistakable message: "Ha ha, why am I wearing this shirt, clearly I'm one of you because there's no way I could be serious about liking Hannah Montana."

On the other hand, it would signal coolness or at least normalcy to certain parts of the "conventional culture" (specifically, young teenage girls who actually do like HM, and older people who think that's a normal sort of thing for them young folks to like, and who don't distinguish much between wildly different subgroups of young folks).

That's the general formula, though usually for it to work specifically as SirBacon described, the relevant subset of "conventional culture" needs to be larger. But when it's not — if you're going around in your Hannah Montana shirt and there are a lot of people who neither take it as non-ironically positive nor are aware of the intended irony, and consequently look down on you — it still works, though in a different way: you get to gain even more status among your indie/hipster friends when you tell them about that stupid mainstream chump who didn't get the joke. (However, getting that kind of response might also feel good for reasons unrelated to status — comparable, perhaps, to internet trolls who relish the angry/disgusted/eye-rolling responses they get from people taking them seriously, even if they are completely solitary and anonymous, leaving them no chance of being lauded by other trolls for their success.)

Comment author: Blueberry 19 February 2010 06:30:40AM 22 points [-]
Comment author: Kevin 19 February 2010 11:28:23AM *  2 points [-]
Comment author: thomblake 19 February 2010 01:31:55PM 6 points [-]

escape your closing parenthesis.

Comment author: thomblake 19 February 2010 01:53:39PM 16 points [-]

I suddenly want "Escape your closing parenthesis." on a t-shirt.

Comment author: Cyan 19 February 2010 02:05:02PM 17 points [-]

If that's the caption, here's the image.

Comment author: Will_Newsome 02 October 2010 11:49:55PM 12 points [-]

Hahahaha. Best transhumanist slogan ever.

Comment author: SirBacon 20 February 2010 01:22:38AM 1 point [-]

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/19/opinion/19brooks.html

Link is to David Brooks, an elite columnist for an elite paper, chiding "elites". He gets paid for this stuff, and is presumably read in earnest by millions of Americans.