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Jesse_L comments on Mental Crystallography - Less Wrong
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Comments (55)
Of course your friend hallucinates stones: there's no other way to read, unless you're going to recite "black c4, white e3, ...". The intersections don't light up automatically: they must be "manually" switched on. Even a visual thinker must string words together in order to speak.
With practice you can learn to read. Start with visualizing one move ahead. That's only one extra stone on the board---anyone can learn to imagine that. Then work on imagining two stones...
"Feeling" the right move without reading is a separate skill. Both skills are fundamental to the game.
You are generalizing from one example. I'm not very good at visual thinking either, and while I haven't seriously tried to learn go well I can imagine what Morendil describes. Some things that seem like they ought to be expressed in images instead come as some sort of vague feelings that convey the information content the images should, but without any discernible actual image attached. In some cases I manage actual visual thinking, and the images have a similar information content, but because there are actual images the information is much easier to analyse, reference to and reflect on. It's not much like a string of words, only vaguely comparable to a stream like "move that there and then do that thing" with each reference being clear. Of course I don't know whether Morendil's experience is similar.
I suspect that you're also overgeneralizing. In particular, you probably underestimating what it means to be good at getting information from feelings-- they don't have to be "vague".
I don't see how that could possibly be true when all I do is describe my own experience (mostly actual, partly imagined) as one example how things can be different than how Jesse seems to expect them to be in a way that matches the words Morendil uses.
I don't mean that I "feel the right move without reading". I mean that reading, for me, has a tactile rather than visual quality. When I imagine an extra stone on the board I don't see it.
You say you don't see it, but surely you know the exact board location. Perhaps you don't (consciously) visualize a stone there but instead look at the spot and get a certain tactile sensation?
Yep. Not sure where you're driving at with that parenthetical though...
I would call that visual+tactile, which are the same two modalities Einstein described thinking in. The parenthetical was to cover the possibility that the visualization happens, but it's so fast that you don't notice it (I'm assuming there's a soft threshold between conscious and unconscious thought, not a sharp dividing line).
Interesting, so there is more than one way to read. Sorry, I had misread your comment.