sketerpot comments on Splinters and Wooden Beams - Less Wrong

1 [deleted] 28 February 2010 08:26AM

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Comment author: sketerpot 01 March 2010 03:05:56AM *  4 points [-]

Anyway, similar papers exist. My personal favorite was written by the Iowa State Supreme Court as their ruling in Varnum v. Brien, which is why gay marriage is now legal in Iowa (and will continue to be legal for the foreseeable future). They go through the list of secular reasons that people claim are why they oppose gay marriage -- marriage is for making babies, marriage costs money to the state, etc. -- and debunk each one of them thoroughly. Then they say, essentially, "Gosh, those were weak arguments. Probably the real reason people are against it is religious reasons. Now gather 'round, children, because we're going to patiently explain separation of church and state, and the distinction between civil marriage and the various religious marriage traditions." It's a solidly compelling argument for why gay marriage should be legal. Plus, the ruling was unanimous, which is a plus.

And yet, you can show that explanation to as many bigots as you like and it won't do a damn thing, because bigotry usually isn't something you can reason people out of. What we need aren't reasoned arguments; we need propaganda. Here's my idea: laugh at bigots. Laugh at their old-fashioned superstitious silliness. Laugh at them as if they were wearing funny hats and shouting about witchcraft. It's not kind, and I feel a bit dirty for advocating this, but it's a lot more effective than trying to argue with them.

The way I could see this paper being effective is if it offered an easy-to-reference list of every common argument and the standard rebuttal to it, sort of like Talk Origins. That could be valuable.

Comment author: knb 01 March 2010 06:01:37PM 1 point [-]

It is one thing to try to convince people that the government should allow gay marriage, it is quite another to convince people that homosexuality isn't immoral.

It is fairly easy to make a libertarian case for marijuana legalization or gay marriage (it's victimless, we shouldn't legislate morality), it is much harder to convince people that gay marriage or marijuana (for example) are morally acceptable.

Comment author: wnoise 01 March 2010 06:49:49PM *  3 points [-]

It is fairly easy to make a libertarian case for marijuana legalization or gay marriage (it's victimless, we shouldn't legislate morality),

But of course this is only a convincing argument to those that are already fairly "live-and-let-live". Many think the that the government enforcing morality is perfectly justified.