Nic_Smith comments on Open Thread: March 2010 - Less Wrong

5 Post author: AdeleneDawner 01 March 2010 09:25AM

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Comment author: Tiiba 02 March 2010 02:13:17AM *  2 points [-]

TLDR: "weighted republican meritocracy." Tries to discount the votes of people who don't know what the hell they're voting for by making them take a test and wighting the votes by the scores, but also adjusts for the fact that wealth and literacy are correlated.

Occasionally, I come up with retarded ideas. I invented two perpetual motion machines and one perpetual money machine when I was younger. Later, I learned the exact reason they wouldn't work, but at the time I thought I'll be a billionaire. I'm going through it again. The idea seems obviously good to me, but the fact that it didn't occur to much smarter people makes me wary.

Besides that, I also don't expect the idea to be implemented anywhere in this millennium, whether it's good or not.

Anyway, the idea. You have probably heard of people who think vaccines cause autism, or post on Rapture Ready forums, or that the Easter Bunny is real, and grumbled about letting these people vote. Stupid people voting was what the Electoral College was supposed to ameliorate (AFAICT), although I would be much obliged if someone explained how it's supposed to help.

I call my idea republican meritocracy. Under this system, before an election, the government would write a book consisting of:

  1. multiple descriptions of each candidate, written by both vir and vis competitors. Also, voting histories in previous positions, alignment with various organizations, and maybe examples where the candidate admitted, in plain words, that ve was wrong.
  2. a multi-sided description of, or a debate about, several policy issues.
  3. econ 101 (midterm)
  4. political science 101 (midterm)
  5. the history of the jurisdiction to which the election applies.
  6. critical thinking 101.

Then, each citizen who wants to participate in the elections would read this book and take a test based on its contents. The score determines the influence you have on the election.

Admittedly, this will not eliminate all people with stupid ideas, but it might get rid of those who simply don't care, and reduce the influence of not-book-people.

A problem, though, is that literacy is correlated with wealth. Thus, a system that rewards literacy would also favor wealth. So my idea also includes classifying people into equal-sized brackets by wealth, calculating how much influence each one has due to the number of people in it who took the test and their average score, and adjusting the weight of each vote so that each bracket would have the same influence. Thus, although the opinions of deer stuck in headlights would be discounted, the poor, as a group, will still have a voice.

What do you think?

Comment author: Nic_Smith 02 March 2010 04:25:31AM *  2 points [-]

What problem is this trying to address? Caplan's Myth of the Rational Voter makes the case that democracies choose bad policies because the psychological benefit from voting in particular ways (which are systematically biased) far outweigh the expected value of the individual's vote. To the extent that your system reduces the number of people that vote, it seems to me that a carefully designed sortition system would be much less costly, and also sidesteps all sorts of nasty political issues about who designs the test, and public choice issues of special interests wanting to capture government power.

The basic idea of a literacy test isn't really new, and as a matter of fact seems to have still been floating around the U.S. at late as the 1960s

And why do you claim this is "republican meritocracy" when it isn't republican per se (small r)?

Comment author: Tiiba 02 March 2010 05:42:31AM 0 points [-]

Erm, from that link, I understood that "sortition" means "choosing your leaders randomly". Why would I want to do that? Is democracy really worse than random?

"And why do you claim this is "republican meritocracy" when it isn't republican per se (small r)?"

Probably because that word doesn't mean what I think it means. I assumed that "republican" means that people like you and me get to influence who gets elected. Which is part of my proposal.

Comment author: NancyLebovitz 04 March 2010 05:03:48AM 4 points [-]

Is democracy really worse than random?

I don't think the matter has been well tested.

Democracy might be worse than random if the qualities needed to win elections are too different from those needed to do the work.

Democracy might be better than random because democracy means that the most obviously dysfunctional people don't get to hold office. This is consistent with what I believe is the best thing about democracy-- it limits the power of extremely bad leaders. This seems to be more important than keeping extremely good leaders around indefinitely.

Comment author: gwern 04 March 2010 02:15:32AM *  3 points [-]

Sortition worked quite well for ancient Athens. Don't knock it.

Comment author: Nic_Smith 02 March 2010 08:09:09PM 1 point [-]

Is democracy really worse than random?

That is indeed what systematically biased voters imply. Because so many people vote, the incentive for any one to correct their bias is negligible -- the overall result of the vote is not affected by doing so. Also consider that an "everyone votes" system has the expense of the vote itself and the campaigns.

Probably because that word doesn't mean what I think it means.

Ok, it wasn't clear that you were talking about voting within a republic from the initial post.