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knb comments on Coffee: When it helps, when it hurts - Less Wrong
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I cycle caffeine and ephedrine to avoid the withdrawal and dependence effects. Of course, I always combine Ephedrine and caffeine on important test days. There seems to be a multiplier effect. The improved focus is especially important on long tests, which generally become a battle of attrition.
I also used the EC stack as a weight-loss tool with great success. It powerfully wards off hunger, and I simply forget to eat meals when I'm using EC.
I asked my wife, an ICU nurse, about this combination of drugs as a concentration enhancer/weight loss tool. According to her, use of ephedrine in anything but a medical emergency is a really bad idea. Wrong dosing/accelerated uptake due to other factors could mean a heart attack really really easily. Probably you already know this, but I can't assume.
She also told me that, if you are going to choose a strong stimulant, there are a lot better choices than ephedrine (sorry, forgot specifics).
Do we have numbers here? Any statistical evidence that it's worse than related but patentable Sudafed?
Nope. I personally don't care at all, strong black tea is as far as I go with self-medication, but I thought knb & others here ought to know that there are risks. According to Wikipedia, Health Canada recalled all ephedrine-related weight loss/bodybuilding meds in 2002. That's enough to give me pause. Minimax, people!
Minimax? I don't think a decision, however wise, to avoid self-medication can be described as minimaxing.
I guess it doesn't strictly fit the criteria. I mean that it involves taking what seems to me a substantial risk for a small-to-medium, temporary increase in productivity.
There are many things stronger than black tea that can be used without substantial risk. Some of them will serve to better optimise the goals that are being subject to minimaxing. Avoiding all such options out of conservatism isn't necessarily a bad idea and it is certainly what can be described as 'appropriate' or 'sensible' but it is not minimaxing.
None of the drugs mentioned in this thread are still under patent. The only relevant current patent is on "minus pseudoephedrine," but that never reached market. Also, I think you're confusing (ephedrine, pseudoephedrine) with (pseudoephedrine, phenylephrine). (ETA: and phenylephrine isn't under patent, either)
Yep, good point. I am aware that ephedrine causes heart problems in some people. I really should have mentioned that. However those outcomes are very rare, ephedrine has been consumed for centuries (as ephedra tea) with a good safety record. I wouldn't ever take more than 25 mg of ephedrine, especially if you take it with caffeine.
However, ephedrine is very commonly used by bodybuilders (I was actually turned onto ephedrine by bodybuilders at my gym) who want to cut weight, and other athletes. Dangerous outcomes usually happen in people who take ephedrine before vigorous exercise. Ephedrine before exercise is extremely common, but I wouldn't recommend it for most people.
Do you have reason for ignoring the general medical wisdom that methylphendidate and amphetamine are safer and more effective strong stimulants than ephedrine?
Based on your comparison of test taking to a battle of attrition, I don't think you'd have any problem getting a diagnosis of ADHD-PI. Have you already tried methylphenidate and amphetamine and concluded they are less effective for you than caffeine+ephedra?
Well, we do have good data on the value of general medical wisdom in this community, no?
I presume knb has done enough research to know how not to give himself ten times the safe dose.
NB This works best with caffeine tablets not coffee or pop, which, when combined with Ephedrine can cause an annoying diuretic effect. A 200 lbs man only needs 50mg caffeine and 25 Ephedrine to keep him going, btw.
NB: If people can't find Ephedrine, then the dirty sister substitute SudaFed (make sure it has psuedoephedrine in it) will serve in a pinch when you are cramming/testing. Funny how their slogan is "UNBLOCK YOUR HEAD". Their caps not mine.