Academian comments on Blackmail, Nukes and the Prisoner's Dilemma - Less Wrong

20 Post author: Stuart_Armstrong 10 March 2010 02:58PM

You are viewing a comment permalink. View the original post to see all comments and the full post content.

Comments (16)

You are viewing a single comment's thread. Show more comments above.

Comment author: Academian 10 March 2010 09:32:44PM *  3 points [-]

Heheh, in response, I have edited out the comma in that sentence :)

Comment deleted 13 March 2010 10:13:51AM [-]
Comment author: FAWS 13 March 2010 12:28:57PM *  3 points [-]

The rule is that nonrestrictive relative clauses are separated by a comma, while restrictive relative clauses are not. There is an additional "rule" that which is only used in non-restrictive clauses and that only used in restrictive clauses, which is probably the source of the rule you learned. But this rule is the same sort of nonsense as not separating infinitives and not ending sentences with a preposition, that is it is based on someones idea how the language should work rather than any observation how it does work and hence it does not match the intuitions of a native speaker.

In German the difference between a restrictive and a nonrestrictive clause is not defined the presence or absence of the comma and there appears to be no easy and straightforward rule. (Faustregel: Bestimmtes Bezugsnomen -> erläuternder Relativsatz, unbestimmtes Bezugsnomen -> einschränkender Relativsatz)

Compare:

  • Sie streben ein Eherecht an, das eine hinreichende Abschreckung gegen Ehebruch darstellt. [restrictive]

  • Unser Eherecht, das eine hinreichende Abschreckung gegen Ehebruch darstellt, findet seinen Ursprung in dem Bestreben... [nonrestrictive]

Comment author: arundelo 13 March 2010 04:41:57PM 3 points [-]

The rule is that nonrestrictive relative clauses are separated by a comma, while restrictive relative clauses are not.

And that that is used only in restrictive clauses. Geoff Pullum describes this as "overwhelmingly complied with by everyone".

Example:

The banana, which is my favorite fruit, is yellow.

*The banana, that is my favorite fruit, is yellow.

Comment author: FAWS 13 March 2010 04:54:10PM 0 points [-]

And that that is used only in restrictive clauses. Geoff Pullum describes this as "overwhelmingly complied with by everyone".

Ah, I thought that was the case and couldn't think of any counter examples, but I wasn't completely sure and since the clause that started this sub-thread used which and I definitely knew the reverse was not true I didn't mention it.

Comment author: tut 13 March 2010 11:29:01AM 0 points [-]

The quoted version says something about a marriage license, and explains that marriage licenses ensure punishments... . The corrected version (without commas) says something about a marriage license which ensures such punishment, but makes no general statements about marriage licenses.

Comment deleted 13 March 2010 12:14:32PM [-]
Comment author: gwern 16 April 2010 06:53:57PM 0 points [-]

If syntax didn't affect semantics, it'd be useless.