nerzhin comments on Undiscriminating Skepticism - Less Wrong

97 Post author: Eliezer_Yudkowsky 14 March 2010 11:23PM

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Comment author: Rain 16 March 2010 03:38:58PM *  1 point [-]

To maintain consistency in my views on the definition of humanity, I've recently begun arguing that children should not be considered human until around the age of 5. It tends to elicit a laugh and some interesting discussions thereafter, as I present it semi-seriously.

For the cryonics vs. embryo comparison, it would likely be down to the desires of the people involved and the future costs. A suspended consciousness has the potential for many more people who care about it directly as opposed to a hypothetical consciousness which has yet to influence anyone outside its parents, and is typically cared about in the abstract. The cost of reviving a cryonically frozen consciousness is currently unpayable, so it can't really be compared with the cost of generating a whole human from scratch (natural birth).

For the ability to do a real world comparison, I would use the cost of birthing consciousness against the cost of bringing someone back from general anesthesia, which is very close to, and perhaps exactly, suspended consciousness. In that comparison, reviving the anesthetized patient has significantly lower costs and has many more people directly preferring it to occur.

This model also applies different values to different levels of consciousness and amount of experience contained within the mind due to the costs involved in obtaining and verifying it.

Comment author: nerzhin 16 March 2010 07:34:37PM 4 points [-]

To maintain consistency in my views on the definition of humanity, I've recently begun arguing that children should not be considered human until around the age of 5.

I'm intrigued. What specific inconsistency drives you to this? I'm imagining you put a high value on something in order to publicly (even if jokingly) say such a thing, and I'm wondering what that something is.

Comment author: Rain 17 March 2010 05:46:02PM 0 points [-]

What specific inconsistency drives you to this?

What sets humanity apart from animals is our conscious mind and ability to reason. Children do not yet possess that full capability, though they typically have the potential for it with the appropriate time and effort. I adjust my values accordingly.

One real world test: Ashley X