Molybdenumblue comments on Undiscriminating Skepticism - Less Wrong

97 Post author: Eliezer_Yudkowsky 14 March 2010 11:23PM

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Comment author: taryneast 27 June 2011 01:42:48PM 2 points [-]

As I recall (I haven't gone to check), fetuses have "brain activity" about the same time they have a beating heart... ie about one week after conception. The brain activity regulates the heartbeat.

The problem with your definition is that it's very vague - it doesn't carve reality at the joints.

I myself prefer the "viability" test. If a foetus is removed form the mother.... and survives on it's own (yes, with life support) then it is "viable" and gets to live. If it's too undeveloped to live... then it doesn't. This stage is actually not very far prior to birth - somewhere around 34-36 weeks (out of 40) (again as I recall without having to look it up).

This is very similar to (but gives just a bit more wiggle room) to the "birth" line... ie it disentangles the needs of the mother from the needs of the child, and can be epitomised by the "which would you choose to save" test.

If you had to choose between the life of the mother or the life of the child: if the child is not viable without the mother - then there is no choice necessary: you choose the mother, because choosing the child will result in them both dying. But if the child is viable - then you actually have to choose between them as individual people.

Comment author: [deleted] 27 June 2011 01:48:34PM 2 points [-]

This stage is actually not very far prior to birth - somewhere around 34-36 weeks (out of 40) (again as I recall without having to look it up).

Actually a good bit earlier than that. Like 24, 25 weeks I think is the age where you get 50% survival (with intensive medical care, but you seem to say that's ok).

Comment author: taryneast 27 June 2011 04:07:17PM 0 points [-]

Ok... then I should clarify. If the mother has 100% chance to live, but the foetus has only 50% chance to live... and only on seriously intensive care... I do not consider that an equal chance to live.

I use the 34-36 week limit because women are encouraged to continue to 34-36 weeks if at all possible (based on what my mother tells me - who is an experienced midwife).

I guess the 34-36 weeks cutoff is, for me, a reasonable chance at living on just minimal life support. ie the mother and the child have a roughly equal chance of survival... thus it becomes a choice between them where external factors of who they are (or potentially could be) are the main issue - rather than simply based upon survival probability.