mattnewport comments on "Life Experience" as a Conversation-Halter - Less Wrong

11 Post author: Seth_Goldin 18 March 2010 07:39PM

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Comment author: mattnewport 19 March 2010 03:26:25PM 1 point [-]

While I don't disagree with your general point, I think there are many cases where it's not just a failure to introspect that makes it difficult for people to explain insights or skills that come from experience. Introspection just doesn't work very well in such cases.

Your medical examples highlight this. The fact that doctors have difficulty explaining exactly what they are doing when they perform a diagnosis is not fixed simply by a bit of introspection. Reverse engineering the process or independently developing an algorithm with comparable performance is not trivial.

Comment author: SilasBarta 19 March 2010 03:48:05PM *  4 points [-]

IIRC the biggest barrier, by far, to algorithmizing the doctor-priest class's intuitional method of analyzing CAT scans, diagnosing, etc. was impediments by doctors themselves and their organizations, not the inherent difficulty of identifying the algorithm.

I think there are many cases where it's not just a failure to introspect that makes it difficult for people to explain insights or skills that come from experience. Introspection just doesn't work very well in such cases.

I accept that one might not be able to convey the experiences that lead to the insight, but one should be able to state the insight ex cathedra so that relevant counterarguments (those not dependent on having gone through the exerience) can be identified.

A characteristic example from the general population might be, "Hey, until you've actually lived through a plane crash like I have, you'll never understand why I'm so skeptical about aviation safety protocols." Well, no. Such an experience might give me a fear of flying, but that fear would be irrational. The fact that someone can't directly impress that terror upon you does not substantiate their conclusion, and so the experience differential is irrelevant.

Comment author: thomblake 22 March 2010 06:39:40PM 0 points [-]

Hey, until you've actually lived through a plane crash like I have, you'll never understand why I'm so skeptical about aviation safety protocols.

Chinese Neo-Confucian philosopher Cheng Yi suggested not only that this sort of thinking was reasonable, but indeed that the "personal experience" sort of knowledge (sometimes "genuine knowledge") is superior, especially for moral behavior.

::shrug::

Comment author: SilasBarta 22 March 2010 06:45:43PM 2 points [-]

Heh, yeah, that Cheng Yi sure missed the mark, eh?

Wait -- what was your point, again? :-/

Comment author: thomblake 22 March 2010 07:35:43PM 0 points [-]

My response to your obvious question was the ::shrug::. I try to let loose my esoteric knowledge where it seems appropriate, even though I didn't see much of a point this time.

Perhaps, "Even respected philosophers have gotten this wrong."

Comment author: SilasBarta 23 March 2010 03:38:54AM 1 point [-]

Oh. Sorry, I misunderstood. Carry on! :-)