MichaelVassar comments on The scourge of perverse-mindedness - Less Wrong

95 Post author: simplicio 21 March 2010 07:08AM

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Comment author: BenAlbahari 22 March 2010 03:32:48AM 4 points [-]

I agree with your points on pain and suffering; more about that on a former Less Wrong post here.

However, reducing the ocean of suffering still leaves you with an ocean. And that suffering is in every sense of the word perverse. If you were constructing a utopia, your first thought would hardly be "well, let's get these animals fighting and eating each other". Anyone looking at your design would exclaim: "What kind of perverse utopia is that?! Are you sick?!". Now, it may be the case that you could give a sophisticated explanation as to why that suffering was necessary, but it doesn't change the fact that your utopia is perverted. My point is we have to accept the perversion. And denying perversion is simply more perversion.

Comment author: MichaelVassar 24 March 2010 07:48:53PM 3 points [-]

To specify a particular theory, my guess is that suffering is an evolved elaboration on pain unique to social mammals or possibly shared by social organisms of all sorts. It seems likely to me to basically mediate an exchange of long-term status for help from group members now.

Comment author: BenAlbahari 25 March 2010 02:56:01AM 3 points [-]

Perhaps: pain is near-mode; suffering is far-mode. Scenario: my leg is getting chewed off.

Near-mode thinking: direct all attention to attempt to remove the immediate source of pain / fight or flight / (instinctive) scream for attention

Far-mode thinking: reevaluate the longer-term life and social consequences of having my leg chewed off / dwell on the problem in the abstract