NancyLebovitz comments on The mathematical universe: the map that is the territory - Less Wrong

68 Post author: ata 26 March 2010 09:26AM

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Comment author: byrnema 14 April 2010 03:44:58PM *  3 points [-]

These discussions about whether 2+2=4 are confusing because 2+2 is 4 by definition of this operation of addition, and then we see in what cases real world phenomena are described by this operation. If you define 2+2 as anything but 4, then you're just describing a different operation. There are many operations where 2 and 2 give 5.

The problem, always, is that there's no causal connection between mathematics and reality. Suppose you try to force one and say that however many rocks you have in a cup when you combine two cups (each with two rocks), that is going to be THE operation of addition. Then asking what 2+2 has to be is asking how many rocks you can have in the final cup. Well, it's not logically impossible for rocks to follow a rule that every four rocks in a certain small area will make a new rock and increase their number to 5. It just happens, in our reality, that rocks satisfy Peano arithmetic (and don't resonate daughter rocks).

Comment author: NancyLebovitz 14 April 2010 04:14:13PM 0 points [-]

Under a sufficiently high temperature, they will coalesce into one rock.

I don't quite have the argument framed, but it's something like arithmetic applies in our world, but only under circumstances which have to be specified separately from arithmetic.